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Trans Noise Diagnosis, Help!!


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15 replies to this topic

#1 johnceggleston

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 02:52 PM

i'm looking at a 97 outback with 180k miles w/ manual trans and a noise. the noise goes away when you push in the clutch.

would a new clutch , throwout bearing and pilot bearing fix this and how much for parts, how much for labor??

thanks, john

#2 nipper

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 02:54 PM

This is a thorw out bearing if it does it in neutral without the car moving.

So yes.

And get new TOB clips, dont reuse the old ones.


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#3 OB99W

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:09 PM

How about input shaft bearings?

#4 nipper

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:12 PM

How about input shaft bearings?

That would be there when the clutch is engaged.


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#5 OB99W

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:43 PM

That would be there when the clutch is engaged.

I enterpreted "the noise goes away when you push in the clutch" to mean that the noise is there with the clutch engaged.

#6 nipper

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:47 PM

I enterpreted "the noise goes away when you push in the clutch" to mean that the noise is there with the clutch engaged.


you say tomato ...


clutch engaged means to me the pressure plate is pressing against the disc transfering power to the transmission, Disengaging the clutch means you are disegagin the power to the transmission.

Pressing the clutch pedal presses the throwout bearing against the pressure plate fingers, which loads up the bearing, and stops the noise.

:clap:

I've always lived with it unless it was really annoying, especially if i knew the car was due for a clutch soon anyway.


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#7 OB99W

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:05 PM

[...]clutch engaged means to me the pressure plate is pressing against the disc transfering power to the transmission, Disengaging the clutch means you are disegagin the power to the transmission.

We don't disagree there.


Pressing the clutch pedal presses the throwout bearing against the pressure plate fingers, which loads up the bearing, and stops the noise.[...]

Sure, that can happen, but if John is saying that the noise is only present with the clutch engaged, then it doesn't eliminate the possibility of input shaft bearing noise.

#8 grossgary

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:54 PM

in my experience throw out bearings are always in horrible shape. nearly every one i ever pull is noisey and does not feel smooth at all. it seems to me they are one of the worst bearings in the entire vehicle, i have yet pulled an old one that sounded okay. actually it bothers me how poor condition most of them are that i pull. all that to say...wouldn't surprise me if it's the throw out bearing and that would be my guess.

maybe even adjusting the clutch cable would help or does this one have a hydraulic clutch like the GT's?

even as a last resort, EJ transmissions are a dime a dozen. labor will vary wildly. a nice transmission shop will go $250-$500 depending on your area, they are set up and can do these quick. if you can find a reasonable one they will charge you fairly. a local trans shop in maryland that was high quality, rather expensive for rebuilds (due to their good 30 year reputation), would only charge $200-$250 to swap a transmission. mechanics tend to be a couple hundred higher than that....but just depends who you know and where you live. if you're in DC i'd expect $500-$1,000. out in the sticks, $250.

#9 OB99W

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 08:45 AM

in my experience throw out bearings are always in horrible shape. nearly every one i ever pull is noisey and does not feel smooth at all. it seems to me they are one of the worst bearings in the entire vehicle, i have yet pulled an old one that sounded okay. actually it bothers me how poor condition most of them are that i pull. all that to say...wouldn't surprise me if it's the throw out bearing and that would be my guess.[...]

Just to clarify this -- I didn't say the noise (which John didn't describe, making remote dagnosis more difficult) couldn't be caused by a bad throwout bearing. The throwout may well be the culprit, but typically when bad they're still noisy even when the clutch is disengaged, although the nature of the noise usually changes. I offered the alternative possibility of input shaft bearings because John said the noise "goes away" when the clutch is disengaged.

#10 johnceggleston

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 08:58 AM

i'm going to drive the car today or tomorrow so my information is all from the owner. he said the noise stops when you push in the clutch. according to murphy, this porbably means input shaft bearing. but the guy did say he's not a mechanic and doesn't know what it is, this could be a dodge. he said he might take it to a shop to get it checked out. i can't believe he's selling without having done that, but who knows?

he commutes 200 miles a day round trip 4 days a week. that's a lot of miles, 40k a year. i'm not sure how long he's been doing it. but he's gotten a different car.

i'll test drive it and check to see if the noise is present with the clutch pedal depressed (throwout bearing) or while in gear driving (input shaft bearing ?) and/or not present in neutral (confirms input bearing ?). does this sound about right?

once the trans is out of the car, how much work to swap the input bearing or should i just plan on swapping the trans? or this a situation where if you have more time you do one and more money you do the other?

EDIT: what changes did they make between 98 and 99 on the manual trans, bolt pattern, what else?

thanks,
john

#11 OB99W

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 09:25 AM

[...]i'll test drive it and check to see if the noise is present with the clutch pedal depressed (throwout bearing) or while in gear driving (input shaft bearing ?) and/or not present in neutral (confirms input bearing ?). does this sound about right?[...]

In my experience (so opinions of others may differ :) ):

1) Bearing noise in neutral with the clutch pedal not depressed could be either throwout or input shaft.

2) When depressing the clutch pedal:
a) If the noise changes (but is still there to some degree), it's likely the throwout.
B) If the noise completely goes away, likely input shaft. Do check the trans oil.

3) Driving (in gear) loads the bearings differently, and the noise may change, go away, or be masked.

#12 85T-REX

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 09:37 AM

Either way you look at it, they should both be replaced with a new clutch.

Don't be in a hurry to do it if the noise isn't that bad. My clutch made noise for about 40k before I had to do anything to it.

rex

#13 johnceggleston

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 09:45 AM

Either way you look at it, they should both be replaced with a new clutch.

Don't be in a hurry to do it if the noise isn't that bad. My clutch made noise for about 40k before I had to do anything to it.

rex


how much work / money to replace the input shaft bearing? obviously the throwout bearing would be done with the clutch, but i have no knowlege of the input shaft bearing. it sounds like it's doable when the clutch ids done.

#14 85T-REX

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 10:06 AM

The bearing comes in the clutch kit if they're still available as a kit. If not, it doesn't cost much.

The bearing is pressed into the flywheel and can be replaced by whoever is refinishing the flywheel. For me, it was the place I bought the clutch kit. They did the flywheel and bearing for free.

rex

#15 grossgary

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 10:09 AM

are you guys talking about the same thing? the pilot bearing and throw out bearing is replaced with the clutch, which is what REX is talking about - the pilot bearing. the input shaft bearing i believe is an internal trans bearing.....right? or are the input shaft bearing and pilot bearing the same thing?

#16 85T-REX

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 10:24 AM

You're right Grossgary, my bad, sorry.

The input shaft bearing is internal. Splitin' the case to replace. That's the bearing that makes noise in neutral when the clutch petal is released. That's the one still making noise on my tranny with 321k. I'm not even worried about that one.

To get back to the originally question, your noise, I'm sure, is the throwout bearing. Mine started making noise around the same mileage as yours. (180k) I didn't do the clutch until 220k. Just keep an ear out for it getting worse. It should last a good while yet.

rex




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