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engine installation question


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11 replies to this topic

#1 bgambino

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 12:00 PM

I recall often hearing on this board about the torque converter not being seated all the way back and that the engine could still be bolted up...and big damage could occur. Does someone know (with certainty) how you can know for sure it is all the way back in?
mine is a 96 OB wagon 2.5 DOHC with automatic of course
thanks

#2 grossgary

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 02:18 PM

the FSM gives some meausurement, but even that is unnerving when you have it all in front of you, so over the internet i don't think there's a solid way to tell you, because it is such a small difference. it will look really, really close, like it's "probably" okay, but it is not. my suggestion is to keep trying to seat it until you know for sure you feel it go that last 1/4". you'll get used to it not quite being there, not quite being there...then it goes and you breath a sigh of relief knowing it's perfect. not getting it right will destroy your transmission...well technically you could disassemble it and rebuild the internal transmission pump but most people don't do that nor do they want to.

oh, and i'll also say that if it appears the torque converter to flexplate bolts are going to pull the two together...then it's definitely not right. they should mesh nearly perfectly.

#3 cookie

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 04:54 PM

Spinning the torque converter as you gently push back can help as can getting the tranny front vertical. I have yet to see anybody do that without leaking a bunch of oil though. As Gary says you will feel it mesh the teeth and slide back,

#4 bgambino

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:00 PM

the FSM gives some meausurement, but even that is unnerving when you have it all in front of you, so over the internet i don't think there's a solid way to tell you, because it is such a small difference. it will look really, really close, like it's "probably" okay, but it is not. my suggestion is to keep trying to seat it until you know for sure you feel it go that last 1/4". you'll get used to it not quite being there, not quite being there...then it goes and you breath a sigh of relief knowing it's perfect. not getting it right will destroy your transmission...well technically you could disassemble it and rebuild the internal transmission pump but most people don't do that nor do they want to.

oh, and i'll also say that if it appears the torque converter to flexplate bolts are going to pull the two together...then it's definitely not right. they should mesh nearly perfectly.


thanks guys
Gary...I'm a bit confused by your last sentance. If the TC was sticking out some wouldn't they (drive plate and TC) "mesh" together perfectly...except the problem would be that the eng and tran housings would not come together effortlessly....thereby it would be the eng-to-trans bolts that would be the ones to drive it closed (and possibly damage the tranny)
I don't have the TC off the trans...I am just worried it may have gotten jarred out of place. Would you guys recommend pulling it forward some and playing with it to make certain it is in all the way
On the other hand...I would think I should be able to measure the depth from the eng housing to the drive plate....and also how far out the TC is from the trans housing---they should match....?

Another thing...haynes said my drive plate mounting holes would not be equidistant (only goes on one way)...not true

#5 cookie

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:36 PM

As a guy who helped do one of the first mechanic's videos and has currently written maybe twenty motorcycle manual sections the manual ain't always right. Trust me on this.
You are right the bell housing bolts are the ones that squash the pump. Gary knows what he's talking about its just tough to explain sometimes when you are not doing it. Measure all you can stand. Just to be sure I've pulled them right off and inspected the seals and reinstalled. Picture this, I think the reason they are such a pain is that the spine you are trying to connect to is floating inside the torque converter wih very tight clearance;[p'''''''''''''''''''''''''
\]] Sorry, cat just walked across the keyboard. You basically have to pick up that spline a few thousanths to catch it from where it sits on the bottom. So if you spin it you have a better chance of cathing it and sliding in.

#6 grossgary

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:52 PM

good catch, the engine to trans bolts will pull it together, not the TC to flexplate bolts. when the TC and flexplate meet, the engine and trans mating surfaces should be flush. don't draw anything together with bolts.

often the people that try to keep it seated are able to keep it seated so i hate to tell you to pull it out if it's okay. but i'd hate worse to say it's probably okay, take a measurement and not work out so well.

with the measurements and keeping in mind not to draw anything together you should be fine. measure multiple times for sure. i always pull it out and seat it...and if i start second guessing i just pull it out again and do it over. doesn't take long, so there's really no loss in reseating it to me.

#7 bgambino

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 11:33 PM

good catch, the engine to trans bolts will pull it together, not the TC to flexplate bolts. when the TC and flexplate meet, the engine and trans mating surfaces should be flush. don't draw anything together with bolts.

often the people that try to keep it seated are able to keep it seated so i hate to tell you to pull it out if it's okay. but i'd hate worse to say it's probably okay, take a measurement and not work out so well.

with the measurements and keeping in mind not to draw anything together you should be fine. measure multiple times for sure. i always pull it out and seat it...and if i start second guessing i just pull it out again and do it over. doesn't take long, so there's really no loss in reseating it to me.

thanks GG and cookie...!

#8 ron917

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 06:29 AM

When I did an engine swap on my '99 Outback, the torque converter didn't budge. I measured according to the factory service manual. There was a measurement in the transmission section for how far the torque converter was from the face of the mating surface. I checked that measurement, it was right on. Everthing went together with no problem.

#9 johnceggleston

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 09:19 AM

someone comment recently that they could not get it to seat with the shaft in the trans. so they pulled it out, seated the shaft to the TC first and then installed the shaft into the trans. i'm not sure of the difference, but it worked for them.

some one else said it wasn't to hard to do, once you knew to do it. but not knowing made you think it was seated when it was not.

it can't be too hard, those of us doing it are not rocket scientists, well... i guess some are.

good luck,

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#10 uniberp

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 08:39 PM

When I did an engine swap on my '99 Outback, the torque converter didn't budge. I measured according to the factory service manual. There was a measurement in the transmission section for how far the torque converter was from the face of the mating surface. I checked that measurement, it was right on. Everthing went together with no problem.


What was that measurement?

#11 ron917

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 01:20 PM

What was that measurement?


This if from the '99 Legacy factory service manual. Note the different measurements for 2.2 and 2.5 engines. Also, note that the value for the 2.2 is negative - I assume that means that the TC is inset from the face of the trans. On the 2.5, it sticks out.

If you don't have a '99 Legacy, you should check the measurements in the FSM for your model and year.

Posted Image

#12 uniberp

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:10 PM

This if from the '99 Legacy factory service manual. Note the different measurements for 2.2 and 2.5 engines. Also, note that the value for the 2.2 is negative - I assume that means that the TC is inset from the face of the trans. On the 2.5, it sticks out.

If you don't have a '99 Legacy, you should check the measurements in the FSM for your model and year.

Posted Image


Thanks. I was wrestling trying to get a recalcitrant TC shaft installed, and couldn't get it tha last .25".

The innermost seal ring, the split one, had slipped out of the groove and jammed.
Posted Image

The correct placement pretty much like this:
Posted Image




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