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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Is there any fuel injection compatible w/ EA-81?


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10 replies to this topic

#1 Ma-fia

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 05:16 PM

I was wondering, if I could get the fuel injector and the rest off of some other year/model.
I imagine, it would be quite a bit of pain in the neck, since all the lines would probably have to be replaced because of higher pressure.
Anybody got ideas?

#2 Nomad

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 05:40 PM

I second this question.

I've researched many fuel injection options for my other cars, but never my Sube.

THe only stumbling block I think I'd find with the Sube is Ignition timing and control...

Didn't someone find a way to mod another 4 cyl disty to fit a Sube <was that an Escort or something?>

If thats the case, the rest should be simple. Not easy...just simple ;)

#3 Hondasucks

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 05:59 PM

EA82's came with SPFI, and the manifold will bolt onto an EA81, you'd need the fuel pump and computer and wiring and stuff, but it'd be a lot easier of a swap than MPFI.

#4 archemitis

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 06:01 PM

yus guys are making it way too complicated

spfi. most common fuel delivery system for the mid to late eighties

bolts right on, just a little mod to make the ea82 distributor work.

somoen has used cis from a vw, but why use that when subaru already did all the r&d for you.

#5 Nomad

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 07:31 PM

Originally posted by archemitis
yus guys are making it way too complicated

spfi. most common fuel delivery system for the mid to late eighties

bolts right on, just a little mod to make the ea82 distributor work.

somoen has used cis from a vw, but why use that when subaru already did all the r&d for you.



Yup, Subaru did do all the R&D, AND they also made things WAY too complex by integrating EVERYTHING into one wiring harness.

Other mfg like GM, Ford, etc have one separate harness for the FI/ECM/PCM, and one for the rest of the car, so removing/installing/modding/swapping the FI system is one heck of a lot simpler than using a Sube's electronics... As for the CIS system, THAT is ingenuity in motion! The person who did that now has an extremely reliable, mechanically-based FI system, that could be turbocharged overnight if he wanted to... never mind the fact that it could withstand EMP. :D

Also, I don't beleive ANYONE has ever hacked an older Subaru's ECM, or found any way to modify it. Why else do you think we all putz around with boost bleeds and fuel cuts? If there was a way into the bloody ECM in the first place, we wouldn't need to work around issues like that.

I've always loved Subaru's, but I have to say, the wiring/electronics and engine management could have been made a LOT simpler, especially for the shade-tree mechanic. If I could swap a GM tbi system onto mine, I'd do it...although now I am considering that CIS...

Just my 02...

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 07:52 PM

The CIS in not way easier than the SPFI - you need MPFI heads, and the only way to get those for an EA81 is to use EA81T heads, which are rare, and fairly spendy if you can find them.

The SPFI bolts right up, and you just need an 85 or 86 disty, and take it to a disty shop and have the proper gear put on the end. There's a couple other things that have to be done to it's caseing as well. The rest is just wireing, which if you start with a complete SPFI wireing harness. the FI portion could be stripped out fairly easily.

GD

#7 Nomad

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 08:05 PM

I have a q about that...

As I've never seen a set of MPFI heads on their own, I'm figuring the reason why they are required for this swap is because the injectors are mounted on the head, correct?

If this is the case, is there no way that said injectors could be mounted in the intake <im thinking modified Spyder>

Just thinking out loud...

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 08:11 PM

You talking EA81 or EA82? It would be more work to try and fab something with the manifold than it would be to aquire a set of MPFI heads.

GD

#9 CIS Subaru

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 12:07 AM

I suppose I oughta speak up here, eh?

Here's my take on all this. For an EA82, CIS was really a pretty easy swap (technically CIS-E for me). MPFI heads are pretty easy to find for an EA82, and everything else fell into place pretty well.
The only wires I had to cut on the VW harness were the two power supply wires, and the only sensor I had to install was the O2 sensor since I used my existing Subaru MPFI coolant temp sensor.

Putting CIS on an EA81T would be almost exactly like putting it on a MPFI EA82, but putting it on a normal EA81 would be quite a bit more difficult. Still, I believe it would be entirely possible for some brave and creative soul to accomplish. My vision of how to do this is as follows: A 3/8" hole would have to be drilled above each intake valve in the intake passages of the heads for the tips of the injectors to poke through. Then Subaru front axle nuts would need to be attached to the heads, centered on each injector hole. From what I've heard, I think JB-Weld would do a good job of adhering the steel nuts to the aluminum heads, and would provide the necessary air/fuel tight seal between the head and the nut. Tada we now have MPFI heads. From there, the VW injector holders thread into the axle nuts and the injectors just pop into place. The rest of the job is virtually identical to the swap I did on my EA82.

If you don't like to make permanent mods that don't just bolt-on, then I can certainly see the benefits of the SPFI system. I just don't like the idea of the fuel and ignition BOTH being controlled by a computer that I have no control over. That, and I don't like all the integrated emissions control junk that comes with SPFI.

One last thing I wanted to mention is a fabulous invention called a surge tank. No matter what injection swap you're planning, I highly recommend using one. All it is is a "buffer" of sorts that allows you to use your existing fuel pump and lines in combination with the fuel injection pump. My VW Fox fuel pump came with one attached because Foxes use a two-pump system from the factory. Here's how it works: A low-pressure pump pumps fuel from the large main tank into the small surge tank. The high pressure pump then pumps that fuel to the injection system. The return line from the injection system goes back to the surge tank so that the high pressure pump can recirculate the fuel again rather than requiring the low-pressure pump to fully keep up with its demands. A low-pressure return line is then run from the top of the surge tank back to the main tank so that the excess fuel pumped in by the low-pressure pump can escape. As long as the low pressure pump can keep up with the volume of fuel actually being consumed by your engine, then this system will always work regardless of the demands of the high-pressure pump. This system allowed me to mount my high-pressure pump in the spare tire area so that I had very little high-pressure line to run, and required no mods to my factory lines.

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 02:00 AM

Originally posted by archemitis
yus guys are making it way too complicated

spfi. most common fuel delivery system for the mid to late eighties

bolts right on, just a little mod to make the ea82 distributor work.

somoen has used cis from a vw, but why use that when subaru already did all the r&d for you.


There is really no aftermarket for older soobs. But, however, a lot of subaru stuff will interchange. you might have to fill in the blanks, but the right combination of subaru parts will bhysically bolt up.

its not so much how complicated the combination is, but the right combination of parts.

But only what is known to work is what has been tried already.
the board writes itself, as there is no mainstream informatio on how to so the swaps.

We know what works so far because it has been done. the information "publishes itself as the results are posted on the message board.

an spfi on ea81 with turbo swap has done

I have mocked up spfi onto an ea81 motor, just the manifold and distributor. The manifold will bolt up to the ports, but the egr will have clearance issues. The pitch bar rom an ea82 will swap.
i flipped the gear on the distributor, and mounted it 180, with the wires plugged in 180 to the cap. this was a mock-up

it could have spfi ecu and harness in an ea81 car, or ea81 motor into an spfi car.

here are some pics from noah's cis subaru at the subaru alliance swap meet

http://photos.yahoo.com/milesfox
click the swap meet album

#11 Ma-fia

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 03:42 PM

That's a lot of stuff to digest.
Thanks guys!




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