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Sooby in the Baja 1000?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 cd45

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 10:48 AM

I stayed home from work today to sit with my son, who has an earache. We were watching TV, and there was a show on about the Baja 1000. I got to thinking, would it be possible to build a wagon that could make it, not for the win, but for the run. I am thinking about a mid eighties wagon with a EA25 and all wheel drive, with at least a 4" lift. There are roads but, they are rather rough, and I think the all wheel drive would be better in the long run. Strip out the interior, put some comfortable seats in, and go. Just another idea, what do you think?

#2 cd45

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 12:42 PM

I saw that some people were using almost bone stock VW Beetles. Not sure how fast they were going. Just like the idea of using a Sooby.

#3 Rooinater

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 01:29 PM

bone stock front vw suspension is a lot stronger than your mcpherson strut setup on a soob. and the majority of the 1200 and 1600 class cars take 30 or more hours to complete the race. no sleep inbetween for them. one of my buddies uncles races the 1600 class buggies. last year it took them around 31 hours to finish, and was the first time they were able to finish without some mechanical failure. and can we say chiropractor bill... good thing he's a doctor and can afford a lot of that. plus they built a class 7 truck for this year so they actually have suspension. there's not a class for subaru's there is for vw's though. which means you'd have to do what that other subaru buggy did, enter in the unlimited class. i'm sure you could build a class 10 buggy and use a subaru engine though. cause that's unlimited suspension, normal aspiration 4cyl engine.

#4 jonas

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 02:32 PM

was that the show that had the kid who did the whole race on his dirtbike? he was one of many great baja stories in that show. that show is awesome. seen it three times.

#5 crazy D

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 05:55 PM

I stayed home from work today to sit with my son, who has an earache. We were watching TV, and there was a show on about the Baja 1000. I got to thinking, would it be possible to build a wagon that could make it, not for the win, but for the run. I am thinking about a mid eighties wagon with a EA25 and all wheel drive, with at least a 4" lift. There are roads but, they are rather rough, and I think the all wheel drive would be better in the long run. Strip out the interior, put some comfortable seats in, and go. Just another idea, what do you think?


you mean ej25?

#6 BruceyWV

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 11:55 PM

I seem to remember a WRX being entered, although it didn't get very far. I can't seem to find much information on it now though.

#7 michael appel

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 06:56 PM

First time for everything its not about all speed its about endurance and finishing

#8 Rooinater

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 08:09 PM

yes, but there are time limits for every class

#9 tailgatewagon

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:51 PM

i have two friends that ran suport for a bike effort. infact they rode the trail two weeks prior to even and then drove support for it. they thought it could be done in a suby. and these are toyota guys not suby guys. i say its worth a go. it would be fun and if it didnt work then at least a great time was had. i remember when they said the rubicon couldnt be done in a suby. well some did it, so i think the baja could be done.

#10 TeamCF

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:55 PM

I'm sure with the right choice of parts, tires, ect. and some good fabrication skills one could put together and beef up a subie that would do just fine.
Anything is possible. It's just how bad do you want to do it.

Hey I know if I had the cash I'd love to have a crack at it in my old GL. :grin:
If nothing else just for the fun of it and to make people think I was nuts.

#11 Uberoo

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:59 PM

A suby would need a trick long travel A arm suspension and porcshe 930 Cv's to even be competitive and be safe.suspension seats could help..

#12 s'ko

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 12:57 AM

someone should prep a car for the baja 250.

#13 BruceyWV

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 05:37 AM

Wooo

http://www.race-deze...ead.php?t=23708

Made it all of 70 miles. :dead:

#14 Rooinater

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 12:38 PM

i'm not saying it won't make it. you'll just have to beef everything up, long travel isn't a requirement, but super strong suspension and high enough to clear the rocks, whoops and sand bars. it's similar to rally, but a lot rockier, offcamber ground and really sandy in spots. you'll also need multiple good pit crews. last time i was at the baja 250 race, you did see baja bugs. just lift it, reenforce it and give it a go. but it ain't cheap to run it.

#15 s'ko

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 01:03 PM

If someone were to prep for a Baja event, I could help w/pit duties.

#16 bluebaru

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 11:09 AM

I would make it rear wheel drive with the front wheels having some serious travel. like some type of 6 inch suspension lift with a few inches added travel in front and a 4 inch lift in back

#17 thatswhatshesaid

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:27 PM

I've been scheming about this for a while now. I was thinking about starting with my buddy's '92 Legacy that isn't being used and has a fair amount of body damage. The suspension would have to be SUPER strong - way stronger than any of us imagine. I've looked at the course over the last few years and it is heinous. It's gruesome. It's nasty. It's rocky, silty, sandy, dusty and rough. Huge jumps, rocky hill climbs and silt beds galore (they will stop a trophy truck in its tracks).

I would love to see a Sube in the Baja, though. I dream of making the Leg do it.

We should make a concerted effort, as a community, to get a Subaru through the ENTIRE Baja.

Who knows how to build suspensions?

A few of us have cars...we need to make it happen.

#18 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 03:20 PM

I've been trying to stay clear of this topic JUST BECAUSE of how much I think about it. Right now the current challenge for my associate and myself is to try and modify an AMC eagle enough to make it in the great race.

Heres some of my thoughts, which I am sure some of you might disagree with.

A WRX is not designed for this race, infact any EJ or Later car is not designed for this race. Our biggest enemy is the weight of the car compared to the size of the suspension components. I'm sorry but any Legacy, outback, or forester is just TOO heavy to take that kind of offroad punishment.

Power is the last of your worries in this race. What you want is an engine that you can throw a hand grenade in, and then keep driving. Fingers point to an EJ22 (or EJ18) for this, or if you wanted to eliminate the timing belt, good old fashoned EA81 power. (though even the ea81 I have my doubts, problems with pistons and coolant going to non-coolant places).

For a drivetrain the greatest advantage is probably something that will "give" to abuse, persay a pushbutton 5sp 4wd(clutch actuated 4wd), OR an Auto 4wd. (I really hate driving an auto, but I think a M41A or a 4EAT, built with some shift kit parts will probably do nicely) The EJ series auto is pretty indestructable, but a notable bit heavier

Keep it real, you aint fittin any tire bigger than 25 inches on a subaru provided you dont have replacement axles every 5 miles or so.

Something needs to be done about the strut mounts that wont handle that kind of torture. going over a just a few jumps can destroy a brand new set of macpherson strut mounts. Probably should have some non-subaru suspension added in as stated earlier

The rear suspension is pretty bulletproof, probably the best bet is an ea82 suspension OR an ea81 torsion bar with the ea82 struts added. Actually adding a boxed-in 4inch lift to the ea81 torsion bar allows for some great travel without compromising any strength.

Glass doesnt last in a baja car, and I am pretty sure all glass has to be eliminated minus the windshield (which breaks pretty early in the race anyway). All windows are required to have nets instead. Here comes the big question... what bodystyle?

ea81 Wagon -excellent long wheelbase and interior room, however I can see removing the glass making the car somewhat flexible in an undesirable way. Not to heavy

ea81 Hatch - wheelbase is too short, your going to hurt yourself

ea81 or ea82 Sedan - less 4wd versions, and I dont thing they are all that rigid of a chassis to begin with, not that much usable interior room.

Brat - NO CABIN ROOM, and they can be nostalgic and expensive these days. I'd feel bad if I really totaled a brat (again). If you dont mind being in physical therapy the rest of your life this is the perfect race vehicle for you!

ea82 wagon - great chassis, honestly I feel this vehicle is too heavy though. your throwing on 300 lbs somehow between a wider track and more interior comfort. Excellent long wheelbase though. once again, what happends to rigidity when there is no more glass?

ea82 coupe/RX 2 door - not too much usable interior space, plenty of cabin room however. giant glass rear window that will not be there in the race, which will probably be replaced with some kind of "roll bar thing" These cars tend to be desirable still, and finding one to cut up might be difficult.

Justy - NO

XT/XT6 - Not really an offroad car, and NO room. Just not a good idea.



What is our end result?

Probably the best candidate is an ea81 or an ea82 wagon
MAYBE a small lift in the rear for travel as long as the blocks are tied together.
Front end will probably need a lot of help no matter what route you go
Weight is the biggest enemy in the car, so the more that can be removed, the better. Weld up some plates over the rear windows or something. A spec roll bar is required anyway, so to keep body rigidity add a couple of upper interior mounts to the roof/pillar area.

I am not an offroad race car driver. I am not a offroad design engineer. Criticism is understood and welcome.

-Mike

#19 Gyoas759

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 12:17 AM

I've been giving this a lot of thought too and the best thing I can think of would be to reframe at least the front (Probably the back too, but not as extensively) to fit longer shocks and provide a much stronger mounting surface. Weld and bolt the rails right to the side wall. It would give you the ability to install much longer and cushier suspension. Any other thoughts on this? I drew a few little diagrams outlining the framing. Plenty of room.

My preference and thought would be an EA81 Wagon.

Anyone know what the rules/limits are to enter. I was on the SCORE website, but couldn't find much that was helpful. Ended up on youtube and getting wistful. I think the idea has great potential. Would love to be able to see a subie go flying over one of those jumps alongside some of the best in the world and hold it's own.

If my subie knowledge continues to grow, the Draconic Automotive team may just enter this race in a reborn old subie.:burnout:

#20 jonb8

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 09:58 PM

Tube frame, full .095 cage with factory ea81 rear, mount a EJ22 and 2wheel drive five speed rear mount in the hatch. Sure the shifter would take some engineering but possible. Fab in that long arm buggie front control arms and steering. Last but not least skin a ea82 body and hang it on the cage. Gets your weight around 1800 pounds and best of all it's all subaru, well almost. Just my 2 cents...

#21 s'ko

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:13 PM

Tube frame, full .095 cage with factory ea81 rear, mount a EJ22 and 2wheel drive five speed rear mount in the hatch. Sure the shifter would take some engineering but possible. Fab in that long arm buggie front control arms and steering. Last but not least skin a ea82 body and hang it on the cage. Gets your weight around 1800 pounds and best of all it's all subaru, well almost. Just my 2 cents...


My thoughts exactly. You could even set up the rear suspension on a swing arm, chain drive set up to get more travel.
The shifter could be cable operated. 4 cables to move the shift rod in, out, rotate left, rotate right.

I have ideas, but no time or space to make this happen.

Gyoas, if you guys do enter, give me some lead time so I can lend a hand wrenching or driving chase.

#22 jonb8

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:31 PM

I don't understand prerunner stuff, no experience with it, but I've built and drove dirt track cars and the simple well designed cars finish, and I think thats more important in the baja than anything. I think rear engine 2 wheel drive would be best because it would land better (easier on an inexperienced driver), and less drivetrain to break. Sounds fun you west coast guys have all the fun...............




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