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Change in Potential Project


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17 replies to this topic

#1 the_bard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 01:59 PM

Got another email from John (thank you!), who says he's got a '89 wagon that should be in good shape body wise. It used to be a AWD with an auto tranny. The engine's gone, and John'll be taking the tranny for one of his projects.

Now I don't know much about this AWD business, but from what the Chilton's book tells me, the AWD tranny is the same as the selective 4wd 5 speed, with the addition of a center diff thrown on the rear end of the transfer section, "taking place of the shifter fork." I plan on finding a 4wd d/r 5 speed tranny to put in it... anybody know if there's a difference in driveline length between the two?

The engine had been a turbo... if I end up with the '89 body, I'll probably pull the engine out of the Loyale, give it a good work over, and put it in the '89. Sort of a reverse turbo conversion, if'n that makes sense :D. According to this thread, especially GeneralDisorder's contribution, I'm going to need the entire wiring harness from the dash out from the Loyale, along with the ECU, and the exhaust. I seem to remember something about having to replace or remove a crossmember, too. That true? I was hoping to complete this project pretty quickly (within a week), since I'd be taking time off work, and completeing the project done at my parent's house... that wiring harness bit sounds like it'd be one helluva mess.

#2 MilesFox

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:03 PM

the 5spd is shorter than the automatic, so you will need the 5spd driveshaft, the front half at least, as the rear half is the same length as any.

and the crossmember with the 5spd has to go in, rear diff, clutch, etc

but if you lay both trannies side by side with their respective driveshafts, the whole shebang will be the same length

#3 the_bard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:19 PM

In other words, I'll want to pull the driveshaft and everything rearwards from the Loyale, eh?

#4 calebz

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:56 PM

yup. rear diff too

#5 the_bard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 08:52 PM

That makes sense. Anybody know the details on the wiring? Replacing the entire drivetrain doesn't scare me too much. Rewiring does, though... my biggest electrical projects have been hard-wiring car stereo's (without a harness), and rewiring an Antec power supply to run a Dell motherboard.

#6 WJM

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 09:41 PM

If you do this reverse conversion (BTW: You will not need to change the enigne crossmember, leave the turbo one on. It's fine for N/A. It'll be easy'r to turbo it later on.), Id like to get the turbo wiring, dash and everytihng dealing with the auto trans thats left over....basically, the things left over from the conversion that is original to the wagon....shoot me an IM or something if you are seriously gonna do this.

#7 the_bard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 10:01 PM

Oh... that's an idea. Just pull the dash out the Loyale, and slap it into the '89. Best part is, the odometer would be correct, at least with respect to the engine.

I know pulling the dash is a huge PITA, but at least it's (more) familiar ground for me...

#8 MilesFox

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 12:31 AM

might i suggest putting a complete hitachi carb/intake on there, much easier to do than spfi swap.

you also have the option of weber on the hitachi manifold, or the fact the mpfi is still htere, you can go back to turbo

all you will need is a carb/manifold combo, a carb fuel pump, and a 85-86 distributor. all of the mpfi can still be there, coil hookup stays the same

a carb doesnt do to bad when its all there, spanked an spfi once in the trashwagon w/exhaust mods

#9 baccaruda

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 01:34 AM

if you do yank the dash, do yourself a favor and change the heater core/hot water valve while it's all out.

#10 the_bard

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 01:47 AM

Originally posted by MilesFox
might i suggest putting a complete hitachi carb/intake on there, much easier to do than spfi swap.

you also have the option of weber on the hitachi manifold, or the fact the mpfi is still htere, you can go back to turbo

all you will need is a carb/manifold combo, a carb fuel pump, and a 85-86 distributor. all of the mpfi can still be there, coil hookup stays the same

a carb doesnt do to bad when its all there, spanked an spfi once in the trashwagon w/exhaust mods



Quoting John, "The engine's toast." I'm not sure what killed it, but I'll believe him. Besides, it gives me a reason to pull the engine out of the Loyale and put it in the '89... some part of the Loyale will live on, ya know?

#11 heartless

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 02:51 PM

I would be intersted in the wiring details too, as I am going to be doing pretty much the same thing as the_bard...reverse turbo swap.
I know the turbo motor in mine is toast, and besides, it is missing some pretty important parts! but have two spfi motors available for transplant. I have a complete donor car available, but not 100% sure what all I need to change over besides the ecu...would it be easier to swap the entire dash out? Not real keen on digital dashes anyway...

more details please!!

#12 thealleyboy

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 05:11 PM

I'm glad Miles jumped in on this. I had been thinking about converting this car into a 2wd 5speed, and going with the carb setup he describes. Still might if Bard doesn't want to fool with it.

This isn't a bad car, but it doesnt really fit into my plans right now. Jim (Subaru 86) had won it on Ebay then decided it wasn't worth repairing it as a Turbo AWD (I agree). I really need the turbo and 4wd stuff for my 89 turbo touring wagon, but I will leave everything else intact if Bard wants to take it on.

The car apparently overheated and cracked the head, and the guy left it at the machine shop, so the motor is not even complete. I'll fill you guys in on more details when I get it home.

Bard, this would be a good conversion to document, if you decide to do it.

John

#13 the_bard

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 08:06 PM

Got your last email, John... thanks :D.

I'll definitely be documenting the entire process... suppose that means I'll have to pick up a memory card for the digital camera, so I don't have to keep running to the house to download the pics (it only holds 17 with the internal memory).

So what John & Miles are saying, rather than worry about rewiring the SPFI I pull out of the Loyale, I just slap a carb on there? I got a bit confused with:

...or the fact the mpfi is still htere, you can go back to turbo...all of the mpfi can still be there...


If I pull the SPFI out of the Loyale, and slap it into the '89, all the equipment 'cept the fuel pump (and the distributor, from what Miles was saying) will still be turbo... that way, if I ever come across a good turbo engine, I can slap it in there *thoughtful*.

I finally found the wiring diagrams within Chilton's (not that they're all that great) and I plan on going over the two, trying to get an idea how bad rewiring it would be, without swapping the entire dash out.

#14 MilesFox

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Posted 11 December 2003 - 09:48 PM

what i meant is that all the mpfi wairing harness in the car is left alone

i have a carbbed spfi motor in my turbo wagon, the mpfi wiring is still there, i can put a turbo back in.

the motor was in the trunk, i started aith the carb, fixed the turbo motor and got it on, running, it blew up, went back to carb. turbo option is still there
it had an ea81 carb the first time, now it has an ea82 hitachi

all i had to do was change out the didtributor and fuel pump and that was IT

but i think it might still work if the turbo dist is used with a carb

i have done spfi ea81 to carb once and turbo to carb twice, (ea81, ea82) i have also put ea81 in a carbbed ea82 sedan
this way you would have a rather modular setup. no messing with wires or anything

swapping the dash for the vin would not be wiring harness related

#15 thealleyboy

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 08:32 AM

Bard:

Why did you need to take out the dash? Try to avoid doing this unless absolutely neccessary. They never go back together like they come from the factory.

If you need access to the wiring, this can be done w/o taking the dash out. You can make your own "patch cords" to tap into the OEM wiring harness. Just find the same connector, with a length of wire, out of a junk car, and follow your wiring diagram to hook up the component.

John

#16 the_bard

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 06:13 PM

Originally posted by thealleyboy
You can make your own "patch cords" to tap into the OEM wiring harness. Just find the same connector, with a length of wire, out of a junk car, and follow your wiring diagram to hook up the component.



That's crossed my mind, too. I just hadn't gotten around to mentioning it yet... it shouldn't be too hard to pick up the connections I need, and create an adapter to go between the two. Just takes time tracing everything back, and triple checking it to make sure I did it right, and then having somebody else looking over my shoulder.

At this point, I think I'm worrying about it too much, but it helps bouncing ideas off of y'all. If I had the car and the means in front of me, I'd just dig into it and figure things out... but I can't, so I worry :D.

It doesn't help that I'm more used to working on tractors... engines, trannies, not a problem... "new fangled" electrical sensors and computers, I'm not used to. If I had it in front of me, I'd feel a lot better about attempting to figure it out, but it's kinda hard without having it in front me :rolleyes:

#17 thealleyboy

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 08:19 PM

Bard:

I never really liked fooling with that stuff either. I grew up wrenching on cars from the 60's and 70's, so electronic ignition was about as complex as it got.

Emissions crap from the mid 70's was a pain, but could be bypassed/eliminated.

My 82 Chevy Celebrity, an early GM computer controlled model, was a bad experience. Enuff said.

Then I started studying the Ford Duraspark system and began to understand how all that stuff works (or at least how it's supposed to work). The thing to remember is that when you strip all that crap off, you still have the same basic fuel/spark/compression combination thats in your tractor on the farm.

The Sube EA 82's are pretty simple cars so don't sweat it.

John

#18 MilesFox

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 04:41 AM

hey _Bard,
if you juat wanted to swap instrument clusters for the mileage, all you need to do is take the bezel off around the cluster.

i would only swap a dashboard if i were to go as far as faking titles and VIN from one to the other.

john kows what i am up to, and i tell you any way t=you want to do this car can be done. the way i suggested would be the easiest cost wise, laborwise, and downtime wise.

i say go for it, either alleyboy or Bard, whover ends up with thecar.
and if you need something aske me, as i have done carb in turbo swaps, ea81 in ea8s swaps, automatic to manual swaps, and 2sd to 4wd swaps.

i'll have some technical info on my website here after bit. stay tuned!




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