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Intake Gasket Failure (Fixed W/ Pic)


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29 replies to this topic

#1 Durania

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 03:07 PM

Just discovered I have an intake manifold gasket leak on the 1 & 3 cylinder side of the manifold. Already plan on getting two gaskets from Subaru. Is there any temporary fixes I could do till I get the new gasket on next week?

#2 Subaru_dude

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 05:23 PM

I don't know about any temporary fixes... but you should go ahead and get 2. Dunno if you already planned on it, but the post said "a" gasket. Anywayzz... how is the ole' Brat doing? Is it holding up well against these rough Southern winters? lol

#3 Durania

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 05:37 PM

I heard a vacuum leak today when I was giving the carb a good bath. Started running my hand over the manifold until I found out where the vacuum was coming from. Talked to my dad and he said it was best not to drive it the way it is. Luckily I got a toyota for a backup vehicle.

Here is a pic:
Posted Image

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 06:18 PM

You can drive it - as long as it's not leaking coolant.

Be careful about the bolts - they like to snap off. Use anti-seize.

Wire wheel the mating surfaces, no sealants, dealer only for the gaskets, and 12 ft/lbs on the (clean, chased thread) bolts.

GD

#5 Durania

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 07:07 PM

Thats what I was wondering. Thanks Rick.

#6 Durania

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:18 PM

From the looks of it, it seems with a weber it will be easier to change. Would I just need to undo those 6 bolts and basically just pick the manifold up and move it back into where the spare tire rests leaving the respective lines hooked up? Of course I will need to disconnect the PCV.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 06:07 AM

yes, you can just lift the entire manifold up and leave most things connected. there are typically a few things to disconnect like the intake and a hose here and there.

be very careful on the bolts, they seize, rust, and break very easily. i can't stress how common this is. i just had someone emailing me last week because they saw my posts after they had sheared the bolts off in the head. fortunately for them they had the motor out and are rebuilding it anyway. i've got a few very detailed posts about removing them carefully and getting them out without shearing them.

good idea to drain the coolant, otherwise when you lift the manifold off you'll dump coolant directly into the heads/cylinders.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 06:30 AM

The EGR pipe is threaded into the head and the manifold. You will have to undo that to pull up the manifold. It's easiest to just undo the side the threads into the head as it will be easier to lift the manifold, and it will be easier to line up the threads when you reinstall it. Make sure you line it up and get the threads started before you lock down the manifold to the heads as otherwise it will be a real biotch.

GD

#9 Durania

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:02 PM

Got the gaskets this morning before I had class. $7.96 each part number is 14035AA150 I bought two. The parts guy said I needed to put some kind of sealant on the gaskets before I was to tighten them down. Does any of this sound right to you guys?

BTW: I drove the new WRX and loved it.

#10 Ross

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:13 PM

No, the subaru ones not supposed to be used with any sealant. Make sure you clean the surfaces very well though.

If the mating surfaces are damaged beyond what you can fix with a bit of sandpaper and you are worried about the gasket not sealing, that spray on copper stuff works ok with this type of gasket - I have used it with excellent results. But you should only use this as a last resort - the gasket should work fine on its own.

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:16 PM

Both the price, and the retard behind the counter are SO wrong. They are installed DRY (per FSM). They are metal/graphite gaskets similar in design to head gaskets. DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT. You will ruin their sealing power. I can't tell you how many of these I've installed because some idiot used the aftermarket cardboard ones, torqued them way too much, or used silicone on them, etc. I learned the hard way by having the aftermarket ones (Fel-Pro even) blow out or leak on me.

DRY, 12 ft/lbs, clean surfaces, clean bolts, chase threads. That is the only sure way.

My dealer charges about $3.65 each for them.

GD

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:18 PM

If the mating surfaces are damaged beyond what you can fix with a bit of sandpaper and you are worried about the gasket not sealing...


Then you fill in the imperfections with JB weld and sand it flush with a block of wood and some 300/600 grit.

GD

#13 Ross

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:23 PM

regarding silicone type sealants - a good rule is to never ever use anything thick and stodgey on any gasket whatsoever. It is crap. Even if it does seal in the first place, it tends to be dissolved by oil.

I have found that the spray on copper stuff enables you to use crap cardboard gaskets on crap mating surfaces without any issues. That includes intake manifolds and head gaskets (obviously not cardboard hgs!).

No, i don't make/sell the copper stuff :)

Personally, i wouldn't put that plastic weld rubbish anywhere near anything i own.....

#14 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:30 PM

regarding silicone type sealants - a good rule is to never ever use anything thick and stodgey on any gasket whatsoever. It is crap. Even if it does seal in the first place, it tends to be dissolved by oil.

I have found that the spray on copper stuff enables you to use crap cardboard gaskets on crap mating surfaces without any issues. That includes intake manifolds and head gaskets (obviously not cardboard hgs!).

No, i don't make/sell the copper stuff :)


There's a place for RTV, but it's not on the intake or exhaust gaskets. I coat my EA oil pan gaskets in it and let them dry - homemade rubber pan gasket. Prevents them from absorbing oil and getting cooked. I also use it on the cam towers, and the valve covers for EA82's and the cork valve cover gaskets for EA81's. I use it on the waterpumps and the thermostat housings as well sometimes.

I have never used the "copper" stuff, nor have I found a reason to. Basically I have three compounds that I will stock - RTV (usually ultra grey), Anerobic (permatex), and Gaskachich (rubber cement - carb base gaskets, and other gasoline prone areas). There are no other sealants I have found a use for on Subaru engines.

GD

#15 85T-REX

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:32 PM

Did you have any work done to your car recently?

My intake gaskets started mysteriously leaking after I had some work done. I checked the bolts and all three on the d/s were loose. I just retorqued them then, and again the next day, and they've been fine ever since. Seemed a little shady to me.

Hopefully that's not your case.

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:36 PM

Personally, i wouldn't put that plastic weld rubbish anywhere near anything i own.....


JB weld isn't plastic - it's metallic powder with an epoxy binder. It's excelent for refinishing mating surfaces like that, or repairing various other cracks and non load bearing parts.

GD

#17 Ross

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 08:57 PM

JB weld isn't plastic - it's metallic powder with an epoxy binder. It's excelent for refinishing mating surfaces like that, or repairing various other cracks and non load bearing parts.

GD


Ah, fair enough, we don't have the same brand names etc. over here so thought you were talking about something else....

#18 Durania

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 09:03 PM

Did you have any work done to your car recently?

My intake gaskets started mysteriously leaking after I had some work done. I checked the bolts and all three on the d/s were loose. I just retorqued them then, and again the next day, and they've been fine ever since. Seemed a little shady to me.

Hopefully that's not your case.


Ive not done any major work on the engine in awhile. Flushed heater core last week but thats about it. Whoever rebuilt the motor used this nasty orange looking gasket sealant stuff. I noticed something was up when the brat didn't want to go when I let out of the clutch, it just kinda chugged a bit. Also was revving alot higher than normal and was also dieseling considerably more than usual.

Thanks for all the advice on this stuff guys. I read in some searches I did that it is better to take them out while the motor is still warm; is that the case?

I wasn't aware till yesterday that the intake manifold had coolant in it, I assumed it just distributed the air/fuel mixture to the heads.
Also, you mentioned the coolant. Do I need to drain all the coolant? Or just from the manifold?

#19 85T-REX

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 09:12 PM

Whoever rebuilt the motor used this nasty orange looking gasket sealant stuff.
That would explain it.:rolleyes:
I wasn't aware till yesterday that the intake manifold had coolant in it, I assumed it just distributed the air/fuel mixture to the heads.
Also, you mentioned the coolant. Do I need to drain all the coolant? Or just from the manifold?

You should at least drain enough to get the level below the intake. Almost a gallon will do.

#20 Durania

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:08 PM

Fixed them today, what a job! Bought a can of PB blaster this morning and put three good helpings of the stuff on the bolts. Didnt break a single one :banana::banana::banana:

Got the manifold off and figured I would clean the EGR up since I had it off. That thing was completely clogged up in carbon buildup you couldnt see the button piece that raises the diaphram it was so bad. Also the pipe that bolts next to the egr looked like a clogged artery. Used a good can of carb cleaner on it. So after cleaning up the gasket surface and dumping a weber carb full of gas on my hoodie we put the thing back on. Hooked up all the hoses and fired it up. It must have sat there burning off coolant for at least 15 minutes and after that everything was fine. Had to re-adjust the carb since I didnt have a large vacuum leak that would hold your whole thump on.

Here is the wonderful gaskets that was taken off and replaced with my OEM Subaru gaskets.

Posted Image

Thanks for the help guys.

-Kyle.

#21 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:11 PM

Yep - that's why you don't use aftermarket gaskets. That's what they turn into in a few thousand miles. OEM gaskets don't disintigrate like that as they are held together with metal. Cardboard doesn't cut it with these. Not even Fel-Pro has realized this.

GD

#22 Ross

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:46 PM

Yep - that's why you don't use aftermarket gaskets. That's what they turn into in a few thousand miles. OEM gaskets don't disintigrate like that as they are held together with metal. Cardboard doesn't cut it with these. Not even Fel-Pro has realized this.

GD


The cardboard ones actually work OK with copper sealant and CORRECT TORQUE SETTINGS. Problem is, the specs that subaru give aren't for cardboard gaskets, so don't work too well, and you get the below situation.

I had to use cardboard ones once (had to wait 3 months for oem ones, I think they were being sent via the chinese treasure fleet or something.....) and worked out some revised torque specs to use with the cut-your-own type cardboard stuff. Planned on replacing them once the oem ones arrived, but never did. That engine did another 20 or 30 thousand k before it got relegated to spare engine status.... no worries!

So if anyone has to use card ones for some reason, it can be done, but dont use soob torque specs.

#23 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:55 PM

So if anyone has to use card ones for some reason, it can be done, but dont use soob torque specs.


Well - the Subaru OEM spec is 12 ft/lbs. Not a lot really. I think with proper coating (copper, or thin coat of RTV and allowed to dry) they would probably be alright for a while. Perhaps a lower torque as well.... but I would be concerned about the bolts working loose.

The problem with the cardboard ones is that they absorb coolant and turn to mush so some form of sealant would have to be used. Sadly that just doesn't work as well as the OEM design. I conceed that they would last for a time, but they can develop leaks leading to further tightening of the bolts and crushing of the gasket. A properly installed OEM gasket should last the life of the head gaskets.

GD

#24 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:52 AM

Ran across this..... receipt for 4 EA series single port manifold gaskets. Just to give you an idea of just how badly your dealership screwed you on parts:

$2.66 each is what I pay at my dealership!

Posted Image

GD

#25 Durania

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:41 AM

Well Rick, there really isn't much I can do besides trying to lowball the dealership into giving me a discount.

Didnt charge you tax either. I had to pay 1.51 in tax on mine.




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