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123 replies to this topic

#51 Rooinater

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:00 PM

We're thinking STI or..."gasp" something non-subaru, but no straite axles.

And Tom...it's got pleanty of gearing so the low cyl. count is not much of a problem.


gearing is part of the cause, it multiplies torque/twisting power on the axles. subaru axles aren't made to withstand the gearing and that size of tire. minimal gearing selection and serious finess is the only way to delay breaking them. before the tcase mod the only axles i replaced were because the boot tore and water got in. like it or not a solid axle will be your best bet with a reasonable cost to strength ratio.

#52 drew and not u

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:39 PM

Yeah, you might as well do front and rear D44s or bigger, you'll be pushing it even with a Dana 30 and the 33"s. A couple cross-members, a few dozen feet of DOM tubing, and 16 Joints later and you'll have one bad-rump roast crawler.

#53 zyewdall

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 10:27 PM

like it or not a solid axle will be your best bet with a reasonable cost to strength ratio.


I don't know. Even the new F-250 pickups (or at least the F150's) have independent front suspension with CV's and axle shafts on the 4wd ones. Not to mention all the toyotas and stuff since 1985. They're a lot more beefy than a subaru axle, but similar design. Wonder how easy it would be to take the IFS from a Tacoma and put it in a subaru with a diverced T-case?

You can break even solid axles if you throw enough torque at them.... I know a guy with a heavily modded cummins turbo diesel in a lifted 4x4 E350 van. He was running 44" highway rated excavator tires on it for a while, but kept grenading rear ends and driveshafts and such, so he went back to 39" or 41" truck tires.... I was following him down a jeep trail in my stock '82 GL wagon one day... sure I had to pick my line carefully and was taking some undercarriage and rocker panel hits... but I kept up fairly well considering ;)

#54 Rooinater

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 12:50 AM

I don't know. Even the new F-250 pickups (or at least the F150's) have independent front suspension with CV's and axle shafts on the 4wd ones. Not to mention all the toyotas and stuff since 1985. They're a lot more beefy than a subaru axle, but similar design. Wonder how easy it would be to take the IFS from a Tacoma and put it in a subaru with a diverced T-case?

You can break even solid axles if you throw enough torque at them.... I know a guy with a heavily modded cummins turbo diesel in a lifted 4x4 E350 van. He was running 44" highway rated excavator tires on it for a while, but kept grenading rear ends and driveshafts and such, so he went back to 39" or 41" truck tires.... I was following him down a jeep trail in my stock '82 GL wagon one day... sure I had to pick my line carefully and was taking some undercarriage and rocker panel hits... but I kept up fairly well considering ;)


but once again... you go back to the cost to strength ratio... how much will it cost for you to buy a toyota or f-250 just to remove it's front end? it'd have to be a tacoma or later... you can pick an 86 to 95 wide track toyota solid axle for a hundred bucks, springs for 50 then say another 50 for the rest of the parts... so 200 dollars versus 5000 to 10000 dollars to part out a better offroad vehicle... hmmm... lets think about this... if you are already going to a non-subaru part, you might as well get a part that will perform while acutally 4wheeling.

not to mention they are 4.10 gears in the yota 8" axles... so if your using legacy diffs, you don't even need to swap out new gears. just weld the diff and go.

early toyota front ends are also known as garbage, they are fairly decent for offroad racing but lock them up and they tend to start breaking. and yes if you don't build up your axles to match your cummins and 44's your asking for trouble. rock buggy's swap in dana 60's but they go with heavy duty axle shafts and heavy duty drive shafts. you can break anything if you don't build it right.

#55 Kenshiro

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:48 PM

In rallying here in sweden they send in the original axles to this company that takes all the measurements of them,, and then make new axles out of steel that can twist over 360 degrees before braking.....


Well after the last axle detonation we just stuck some
more stock axles back in it, took it out to a great wheeling spot with some jeeps. It kicked @$$ the whole trip and then broke another axle when we got back to the pavement. Drove it around town for awile with one axle and then shortly after driving up the front of a Buick....broke the other axle. Since then it's just been sitting waiting for us to come up with something better.
We're thinking STI or..."gasp" something non-subaru, but no straite axles.

And Tom...it's got pleanty of gearing so the low cyl. count is not much of a problem.



#56 michael appel

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:21 PM

Throwing out a suggestion how about vw axles they run 1000 horse buggies with vw axles and 31 in to 35 inch tires just a shot out there is all

#57 MorganM

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:41 PM

Nice build up of a Legacy to be sure. Glad you are enjoying it on and off the road.

Am I the only one that thinks you shouldn't strengthen the axles but rather adjust your on-pavment driving? The stock axles are strong enough for you to off road (You've only mentioned breaking axles and driveshafts ON road!), cheap to replace, easy to replace... where's the down side here?

Lets say you beef up the axles and they stop breaking. Now where are you going to break? Ring and pinions... harder to change, more expensive, and you won't just throw it in FWD to get home. Transmission... fun. Output shaft on tranny to engine. I'd rather change 10 axles than 1 tranny =) Keep 2 front and 2 rear axles with you every time you go out; it's not like they take up much room. Heck most Jeepers already do that plus a few U joints and hubs.

Consider where you want it to break; because it's going to break. Instead of thinking that everything can be upgraded to the point of not breaking because you're just moving the breaking point around to the next weakest link.

#58 Subafreak

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 08:54 PM

Nice build up of a Legacy to be sure. Glad you are enjoying it on and off the road.

Am I the only one that thinks you shouldn't strengthen the axles but rather adjust your on-pavment driving? The stock axles are strong enough for you to off road (You've only mentioned breaking axles and driveshafts ON road!), cheap to replace, easy to replace... where's the down side here?

Lets say you beef up the axles and they stop breaking. Now where are you going to break? Ring and pinions... harder to change, more expensive, and you won't just throw it in FWD to get home. Transmission... fun. Output shaft on tranny to engine. I'd rather change 10 axles than 1 tranny =) Keep 2 front and 2 rear axles with you every time you go out; it's not like they take up much room. Heck most Jeepers already do that plus a few U joints and hubs.

Consider where you want it to break; because it's going to break. Instead of thinking that everything can be upgraded to the point of not breaking because you're just moving the breaking point around to the next weakest link.



Funny, we considered that, but im running out of sources for cheap/ pleantiful axles. These old Legs are getting harder and harder to find parts for, and all the new ones use a different style rear axle.

I think i've made up my mind to just grab an STI rearend and axles. It will bolt right in to whats already there and has to be alot stronger. Plus if i do break thoes there are more companies that make 1,000hp axles for those rear ends.

#59 MorganM

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 11:40 AM

So maybe axles shouldn't be your "breaking point" but you certainly don't want it to be the tranny.

How about U joints? I'd rather break a driveshaft U joint and repair that on the trail.

With that STi rear end and axles you are just moving the breaking point somewhere else... it's going to break somewhere! You've offroaded enough to know that =)

#60 TomsSVX

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 05:16 PM

Funny, we considered that, but im running out of sources for cheap/ pleantiful axles. These old Legs are getting harder and harder to find parts for, and all the new ones use a different style rear axle.

I think i've made up my mind to just grab an STI rearend and axles. It will bolt right in to whats already there and has to be alot stronger. Plus if i do break thoes there are more companies that make 1,000hp axles for those rear ends.


Jesse I can build you axles using SVX components... Does that old Leggy have the stubs for the rear diff?? or are the stubs on the axles like the new ones??

Tom

#61 Subafreak

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 06:33 PM

Jesse I can build you axles using SVX components... Does that old Leggy have the stubs for the rear diff?? or are the stubs on the axles like the new ones??

Tom


What kinda crazy axle combo do you have in mind? The rearends that are in it have the stubs sticking out of them. I think part of the problem with the rear axles is the longer lateral links we made for it, well those and the welded rear.

Im gonna order the whole STI rearend for it this week and try to use a different rear strut set up using STI struts and coil overs so that we dont have to extend the lateral links.

The front axles have held together fine so far but seem to be makeing a little noise now. Not suprizing considering the inner cups are off an old loyal.

We also want to try and angle the T-case up into the body more to get somemore center clearance. Avoid any high centering issues. :headbang:

#62 TomsSVX

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 10:06 AM

Well you can use the front axle shafts in the rear axle cv's... All you would need is to start taking them apart to make sure they fit properly.

Tom

#63 Subafreak

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:07 AM

Well you can use the front axle shafts in the rear axle cv's... All you would need is to start taking them apart to make sure they fit properly.

Tom


Do you mean i can take the SVX front axles and change the inner cups to the ones that will fit the rear diff splines? Have you tried that yet?

Will the svx outter splines work in the stock legacy rear hubs?

#64 TomsSVX

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 08:48 AM

Do you mean i can take the SVX front axles and change the inner cups to the ones that will fit the rear diff splines? Have you tried that yet?

Will the svx outter splines work in the stock legacy rear hubs?


No I have not tried it... But I did use SVX inner cups on an XT6 rear axles so I could convert it to VLSD. Do me a favor and send me two rear axles (they can be broken) and I will try and frankenaxle them. Problem is, I believe the shafts on the Leggy might be shorter than the SVX axles but I would need them here to see what we could do.

Tom

#65 Subafreak

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 09:32 AM

No I have not tried it... But I did use SVX inner cups on an XT6 rear axles so I could convert it to VLSD. Do me a favor and send me two rear axles (they can be broken) and I will try and frankenaxle them. Problem is, I believe the shafts on the Leggy might be shorter than the SVX axles but I would need them here to see what we could do.

Tom



You want broken Legacy rear axles? Thats not a problem except the way they are broken....it usually snaps the the splines right off the axle shaft right at the inner cv joint! Think that makes them kinda usless for experimenting.

#66 Gloyale

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 10:59 AM

Do me a favor and send me two rear axles (they can be broken) and I will try and frankenaxle them. Problem is, I believe the shafts on the Leggy might be shorter than the SVX axles but I would need them here to see what we could do.

Tom


You want broken Legacy rear axles? Thats not a problem except the way they are broken....it usually snaps the the splines right off the axle shaft right at the inner cv joint! Think that makes them kinda usless for experimenting.


Looks like you were right, Tom, his Legacy axles ARE shorter. :lol:

#67 TomsSVX

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 01:35 PM

can you put the new style axles into that hub or use a new hub?? If so, the axle lengths will change and will prob be just the right length for a frankenaxle

Tom

#68 Subafreak

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 05:23 PM

Well i have the STI rear end assembly comming. The only catch is that i got the one with the bigger lug pattern. This way i can use Jeep wheels or many other options for off-sets and withs.

The only catch with this is that i need to figure out what to do for brakes. I figure i can drill any rotor to work but i dont know what caliper will work.
You ever try to use SVX rear brakes on an STI hub?

The other trick is going to be converting the front to the larger hubs. Thinking about making some frankingcontrol arms to use SVX front spindals and brakes. I'm pretty sure the SVX front axles are a bit longer than the Legacy ones. This will allow me to push the front wheels out a little more and regain some turning radius with the bigger tires. I just need to figure out if i can graft the Loyal inner cv's onto the SVX front axles, or if the STI rear inner cv cups can be adapted to the SVx front axles. If the latter will work i may get another R-180 diff for the front.

Basicly we got a bunch of stuff to check out and try.

#69 TomsSVX

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:42 PM

damn thats a whole bunch of ************... Yea the control arms... I dunno about that, might be more hastle than its worth... Might as well pick up a set of brembos with hubs and convert all 4 corners if its possible

Tom

#70 Subafreak

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 11:57 AM

damn thats a whole bunch of ************... Yea the control arms... I dunno about that, might be more hastle than its worth... Might as well pick up a set of brembos with hubs and convert all 4 corners if its possible

Tom



Yikes! Brembos. I already spend more on the rear end than i wanted to, and i was hoping to stick with 15" wheels. Not even sure if i could fit a 15" wheel over SVX brakes thoe.

Either way i got the STI rear end in it last night, bolted right up. Now i just need to refabricate the rear strut extensions to fix the camber angles. Should work pretty sweet, much beefier than the little Legacy axles. :)

#71 Gloyale

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 01:34 PM


Either way i got the STI rear end in it last night, bolted right up. Now i just need to refabricate the rear strut extensions to fix the camber angles. Should work pretty sweet, much beefier than the little Legacy axles. :)


<<<<< Entire USMB chanting in Chorus >>>>>

WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS!

#72 Subafreak

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 02:41 PM

<<<<< Entire USMB chanting in Chorus >>>>>

WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS!



Yes, yes i know. Forgot my camera again. :dead:

#73 tysn

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 06:43 PM

Everyone Light the Torches, I'm totally joking. but we do want pics

#74 TomsSVX

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 06:21 AM

How did u get the axles in??

Tom

#75 Subafreak

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 09:52 AM

How did u get the axles in??

Tom


What do you mean, how?

I got the whole rear subframe. Axles, diff, spindals and all.




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