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midengined RWD BRAT???


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46 replies to this topic

#1 s'ko

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 11:55 AM

So I took some pics of the EJ22T that I picked up this weekend and I noticed that where it was sitting in the bed of the BRAT was exactly where it needs to be to make it a midengine RWD BRAT.

The engine was sitting in the jump seat frame and there was about 8 inches from the t-belts to the back of the cab.

so if you cut out the back of the brat and make a subframe to hold the engine and tranny. You move the gas tank to the front to balance things out a bit. If you make a cage to protect the gas tank then you can make some custom suspension for the front. So this could either be a street BRAT or maybe a pre-runner.
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Posted Image

#2 backwoodsboy

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 01:44 PM

The fuel tank in the front idea scares me a little... but what a hotrod that would be! Keep us posted.

#3 archemitis

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 04:18 PM

i've seen a few volkswagens done up like that, bug motor and tranny in the rear of the pickemups.
while your at it, leave the front motor in there too!

#4 nipper

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 05:51 PM

hehehe

Thats why Oldsmobile Toronado 500 cubic inch engines fit in anything for makeing a mid engine car.

nipper

#5 kiwi subbie

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 02:37 AM

that sounds cool :burnout:
i also like the sound of an front and rear engined brat lol :lol:

#6 baccaruda

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:45 PM

Correct. :burnout:

leave the front motor in there too!



#7 monstaru

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 08:06 PM

Correct. :burnout:


i can't tell you how many times he(^) and i have discussed this............

#8 mtsmiths

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Posted 09 November 2007 - 04:55 PM

i've seen a few volkswagens done up like that, bug motor and tranny in the rear of the pickemups.
while your at it, leave the front motor in there too!


Like, you guyz are So too late!

http://www.ultimatec...2CV-Sahara.html

And it was the Frogs :lol:

#9 Reveeen

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Posted 09 November 2007 - 05:21 PM

There was a fella that used to campaign a front and rear engine mini on circle tracks when I was a kid. (40+ years ago).

#10 kiwi subbie

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 03:49 AM

Like, you guyz are So too late!

http://www.ultimatec...2CV-Sahara.html

And it was the Frogs :lol:


yea dad had an 2cv only single engine 1 lol. its so fun to drive. it was an 1988 model. so cheap 2 run and about the only tools ya needed was the wheel brace and an srew driver and you could almost take any pannel of it haha :lol:
:burnout:

#11 Pooparu

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 09:00 AM

I would think that the shift linkage would be somewhat of a challenge. You'd have to set something up like a Porsche 944 (Long rods and hangers). I’m not really sure how you’re going to get around the motor to attach everything to the transmission. It should be interesting. Let us know how it goes and good luck to ya.

#12 monstaru

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 05:42 PM

servos,with paddle shifters.:grin:

I would think that the shift linkage would be somewhat of a challenge. You'd have to set something up like a Porsche 944 (Long rods and hangers). I’m not really sure how you’re going to get around the motor to attach everything to the transmission. It should be interesting. Let us know how it goes and good luck to ya.



#13 s'ko

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 11:29 AM

Not going to be doing this project for a long time.

I like the way my BRAT is running now and the EJ22t is slated to go into the RX.

I might do this later on in life if I can either find a 1st gen BRAT or I the itch to do this to the EJ18 BRAT.

BW

#14 offroadsubaruguy

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 01:29 PM

as crappy as they are, the automatic would be the way to go with that idea...... just come up with a shift kit to make the auto tranny awesome shmawesome.......

#15 s'ko

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 11:20 AM

thought i would give this a bump.

I am not any closer to getting this projected started and probably will not be for a few years, but......
I am trying to work out some of the kinks and get the info while it's avaliable from some of the finest problems-solvers in the world.
:clap: yeah for USMB.

Ok so here is what I have thought of so far. Engine would be mounted into a hole cut into the bed of the BRAT. The torsion bar suspension set up would be removed and a new engine/tranny crossmember would be installed. Since I am removing the rear suspension mounts, it might be possible to use an EJ engine crossmember and then use EJ front control a arms. That would make it possible for 5 lug stuff in the rear. Heck I can even get psycho and do 4 wheel steering. :slobber:

Shifting would have to be handled by some sort of cable set up. That would get it around the engine. It would basically consists of 4 cables attached to the end of the shifter. The shifter rod basically moves in 4 directions. forward, backwards and left rotation and right rotation. If you shift into 1st gear the rod rotates left and pulls out. On the shift lever side, the cable would be connected under the pivot. On the tranny, the cables would connected to a collar that is connected to the shifter rod. This should allow for the same movement types you would get w/the shift lever. 1st gear would pull the Left cable and then pull the forward cable.
These would need to be hooked up to the collar so that this motion would translate into proper shifting movement. There obvious needs to be fine tuning in this system before it's implemented on the road.

Here is a relatively new idea that I have been kicking around. AWD midengine BRAT.

So, if the back wheels are powered by the front stub axles, could a divorced T-case be put in to put power to a front diff? It would basically go from the rear output to the t-case and then go back forward. The rear output of the t-case would not be used.
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I don't want to lift the BRAT and I also don't want that drive shaft to get caught up on a speed bump so I thought about rotating the t-case 90degrees, but it might get in the way of the suspension and the axle powering the rear wheel. Rotate it any more and the driveshaft would go into the cabin and be at a very high unusable angle (not to mention dangerous) Any ideas on how to get this to work? Also for those who have a divorced t-case how long does it measure? and how tall is it.

Like I said in the beginnig of the post, this is more of a theoretical, academic discussion than post about building this beast.

#16 cobcob

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:45 PM

How about a bit of inspiration from the VW crowd??
http://www.durocco.c...otos/page1.html
Twin engined Scirocco... 16v up front, 16v in the back, shifters linked... :headbang:

#17 3eyedwagon

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:32 PM

How about a bit of inspiration from the VW crowd??
http://www.durocco.c...otos/page1.html
Twin engined Scirocco... 16v up front, 16v in the back, shifters linked... :headbang:


A single engined Scirocco is enough of a headache to work on. :banghead:

I don't want to even think about what that thing would be like. :rolleyes:

I bet it goes like wee though. :grin:

#18 zukiru

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:21 PM

you have to look at the scirrocco this way.... you are twice as likely to make it home with 2 engines!



I was just looking at a twin engine tiburon with 2 4g63s (eclipse turbo motors)

#19 s'ko

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 06:59 PM

you have to look at the scirrocco this way.... you are twice as likely to make it home with 2 engines!



I was just looking at a twin engine tiburon with 2 4g63s (eclipse turbo motors)


as interesting as twin engined scirroccos and tiburons are, let's keep to the point of the OP.

That being a MIDENGINED RWD/or AWD BRAT

BTW, two ea81s at 160 HP total vs. 1 EJ20 = 230 HP.
Even 2 EJ22s at 280 HP total vs. 1 STi EJ25 = 300 HP.
Now 2 EJ20s at 460 HP total that might be interesting. But then again I have a friend w/an EJ20 20G that has 310 WHP. so it's still faster and twice the weight and complexity.

Complexity is not worth the HP gains.

Thanks

BW

#20 joostvdw

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:27 AM

I think your best bet would be to get an adapter made that uses some gear to the the rear output of the tranny to the side of the engine (look at AWD porsches) and then use an flipped rear diff at the front.

you will need to use a 2 piece driveshaft and a carrier bearing somewhere after the engine and maybe even a cutout in the oil pan to clear the driveshaft, but it should be doable.

#21 zukiru

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 12:55 PM

figure out how to run the engine backwards, and then use a stock driveline
reversed with the engine in the rear. Porsche style.

#22 nipper

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:05 PM

figure out how to run the engine backwards, and then use a stock driveline
reversed with the engine in the rear. Porsche style.


Easier to just flip the differential as alot of modern engines can no longer run backwards.


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#23 Numbchux

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:15 PM

Easier to just flip the differential as alot of modern engines can no longer run backwards.


nipper


the diff in a subaru trans cannot be flipped. even with a custom ring/pinion. just no room for it.

I also don't think the engine could be made to run backwards without a ton of work. cams reground, oil/water pumps redesigned. ECU reprogrammed.


I think your best bet for 4WD, is a VW-subaru adapter plate, with a Synchro vanagon 4WD drivetrain in there. would be rear engined...but close.

I think running a driveshaft under the suspension components would be a nightmare. really wouldn't be much room.

#24 nipper

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:25 PM

Or do it the way they used to do it back in the good old days, find an Olds Toronado drive train :)


Imagein 500 cubic inche mid engine brat....

EEK

nipper

#25 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 06:15 PM

Or do it the way they used to do it back in the good old days, find an Olds Toronado drive train :)


Imagein 500 cubic inche mid engine brat....

EEK

nipper


Could also use a 500ci Cadillac El Dorado drivetrain, from the FWD ones from the early '70s
-Bill




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