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Interesting thoughts...


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25 replies to this topic

#1 88RxTuner

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 06:36 PM

I have just acquired an ER27 Flat Six from the xt-6... It happened upon me in such a way that I could not help myself but wonder...

1. Will it fit in my 1988 RX?? I dont see why not, with some minor mods..
2. Can I keep my FT4wd DR trans? Once again, why not..?
3. Can I put EA82 turbo pistons and rods in it?
4. A pair of stock EA82 turbos on a 2.7L should be good for 12 psi and relatively low lag, right? :D
5. This should run better than my studded EA82/TD04/TMIC@10psi...Right?

These ponderings are of course based on the assumption that I will have to fabricate my entire intake and exhaust, and Engine management will be self-contained... i.e. SDS, MegaSquirt, Etc..

Thoughts, comments? Creative advice?

#2 subyrally

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Posted 10 November 2007 - 06:44 PM

think there are a couple of people working on that right now. from what i understand, you will need to cut into the radiator support and move it forward to fit the engine. pretty sure that the trans will bolt up. also, from what ive heard, the pistons should drop right in. my concern would be with cooling and head gaskets to be honest. dont see why you couldnt build this thing to run, but it wont be too cheap to do it right. it should go like stink if you can get it done though, keep us updated on wht you end up doing, id really like to see this go somewhere.

#3 daeron

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 04:39 AM

I wouldn't bother responding with such vague notions, but since its been a few hours since your post and no one more knowledgeable than I has stepped up, I will add a +1 to the points made in the above post :)

you seem to have a grasp on what areas will need the work.. the pistons and rods will fit just fine. Turbo choice need not be limited to anything; your manifolds will be one-off so you can use whatever snails you can get your hands on/you prefer. HOPEfully the work won't be any more major than you seem to understand it to be already; this is something I want to see. The RX should have a HAIR more space under the hood to play with than the XT itself did, but you will quite possibly run into a need to alter the engine X-member extensively.. either a stock RX X-member, to fit the turbos and the 6 cyl, or the stock XT6 member, to fit the turbos and the RX.

#4 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 05:34 AM

If you stuff the ER27 into your RX, you will need to find a new place to put your radiator. I have seen a ER27 put in two brats, and one EA82 Wagon. None of them had room for a radiator, they were mounted horizontally above the motor.

#5 Bucky92

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 05:44 AM

There is a member in Honduras who has done the ER27 in an EA car..Jeszek knows how to do it and has done fantastic work on his. Look up posts by a member called Loyale 2.7 Turbo..He is a wiz with these things and a super nice member too ( OMG I need to kick myself ..I havent talked to him in awhile...sorry Jeszek sweety!!)

#6 88RxTuner

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 10:58 AM

Thanks for all the input, guys..

I got the ER27 to the shop yesterday, tonight after working on everyone else's stuff for a living I'm gonna go work on my stuff for fun, hopefully tear it down to a bare block in one swoop..

We've come up with a preliminary goal.. to get this thing running on a stand, then work on making it go in my RX... Being that my RX is the daily driver, I cant justify having it down for an indeterminate time based solely on a whim...

Will keep you guys posted on how it's going.

#7 Turbone

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 11:47 AM

I usually dont like to rain on folks parades (not often) But the ER27 is not a very good choice if you want performance. Its just a morphed EA82, essentially the same block design and all. Theres no aftermarket support for it(just like the EA82T) and if you turbo it, your going to end up with the same problems the people running hot EA82T's have. Cooling being the biggest headache. And with having to mod the rad for this swap, your in for real problems.
I know the engine came to you cheap (free?) and it looks like a fun project. But a EJ20G is a much funner engine to drop into a RX and its been done succesfully.
If you choose this path, good luck and keep us updated.

#8 archemitis

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 12:11 PM

I had an er27 in my hatchback, and after a couple years runing it, i put it back where it belongs... in my XT6.
its too long and weighs too much, especially if you hang two turbos off of it.
wouldnt a big turbo and proper fueling get pleanty of power out of the ea82t?

#9 Turbone

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 12:16 PM

Yes, you get decent power out of a bigger turbo. But it needs to be run conservatively, like no upping the boost. At least not for long periods.

#10 88RxTuner

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 03:46 PM

RE: Turbone's post re: ej20...
Thanks again, for the replies. Yes, I got this engine for free, it's in good mechanical condition but I'm going to freshen it up while it's easy to do..
The "Fun Factor" isnt such an issue to me, I know an EJ swap would be more powerful, more reliable, and probably easier... that's why I dont really want to do an EJ swap.. I've done my fair share of conversions, and it seems that everyone under the sun stuffs an EJ20 into their EA cars.. But, how often do you see a flat six, in anything but an XT6 or a porsche? I am considering this swap not for the available power, but because it's different. That said, I dont expect it to be easy, and I know already there's gonna be fab involved.. But, it should run better than the EA82, which I'm already estimating at around 170HP.. If I can get 200 HP and a little more torque, that plus the "OMG that's a flat six..." factor would make it worth it to me. Once again, I'm still only contemplating this swap, and will wait until the engine is built and running.. Thanks for your input, guys!! I'll keep you all posted.

#11 subyrally

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 07:56 PM

if you werent on the other side of the country, id hug you:headbang:


RE: Turbone's post re: ej20...
Thanks again, for the replies. Yes, I got this engine for free, it's in good mechanical condition but I'm going to freshen it up while it's easy to do..
The "Fun Factor" isnt such an issue to me, I know an EJ swap would be more powerful, more reliable, and probably easier... that's why I dont really want to do an EJ swap.. I've done my fair share of conversions, and it seems that everyone under the sun stuffs an EJ20 into their EA cars.. But, how often do you see a flat six, in anything but an XT6 or a porsche? I am considering this swap not for the available power, but because it's different. That said, I dont expect it to be easy, and I know already there's gonna be fab involved.. But, it should run better than the EA82, which I'm already estimating at around 170HP.. If I can get 200 HP and a little more torque, that plus the "OMG that's a flat six..." factor would make it worth it to me. Once again, I'm still only contemplating this swap, and will wait until the engine is built and running.. Thanks for your input, guys!! I'll keep you all posted.



#12 88RxTuner

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 08:31 PM

Got around to tearing down the ER27.. You all know I'm going for a turbo build, here's some more interesting thoughts...

It seems that the ER27 has a 3.62" bore. The WRX 2.0t also has a 3.62" bore. My friend and I were comparing things last night, and idea came up that it may be possible to drill the pin side of the rod to accept WRX pistons and wrist pins.. Doing more research tonight, I should be able to compare them side by side..

Thoughts on using the EJ20 pistons?

#13 subyrally

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 11:11 PM

been there, thought of that. the ej pistons have a different hightfrom the ea pistons, you would need custom rods to make em work, but i cant remember the specs on that,. might just be easier and cheaper to get a set made for the ea engines.

http://www.ramengines.com/
they make parts for the ea series. including forged turbo pistons and stainless valves. ive tlked to them a few times about the ea82t i want to build, just havent had the money to actually start my build yet :(


but yeah, you can make the ej pistons work, but it wont be bolt in.

#14 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 01:13 AM

There is a member in Honduras who has done the ER27 in an EA car..Jeszek knows how to do it and has done fantastic work on his. Look up posts by a member called Loyale 2.7 Turbo..He is a wiz with these things and a super nice member too ...


Thank you for your Kind Words, Connie!!! :)

Well... I´m Back!!! ... I just came from a Job Trip to the Honduran "Swan Islands" and so on... and I just saw this Thread.

About to Swap a ER27 engine on a RX, let me Tell you that it is Doable, but there are few things that you´ll need to Know first, and to do then.

There´s no many "Plug & Play" things involved, just some parts will fit, some don´t, so you´ll need to Use your Creative Skills.

If you stuff the ER27 into your RX, you will need to find a new place to put your radiator. ...


Absolutely True!!! ... I still have Overheatin´ Problems with mine, and that situation, plus the Lack of Money / some Parts \ Spare Time, is the cause of that my Yellow Wagon´s Project is Still unfinished, the Subie Runs but to make it Turbo, first I need to Solve the Overheatin´ problem Safely, then I need the EA82T Pistons, plus other parts involved... a custom intake, etc... there was some sort of Guide to do a Turbo Conversion on a ER27, that I saw on the XT6.net site, I saved it but since my PC crash (Some months Ago), I saved it on a CD that I don´t have at the hand Right Now, but the Info is Still on the Internet.

You´ll need to Swap almost all the electric stuff from the XT6 too. Keep the Control Unit, Wires, etc...

...the ER27 is not a very good choice if you want performance. ...it looks like a fun project. But a EJ20G is a much funner engine to drop into a RX and its been done succesfully.
...


Sorry, but Really I need to Agree, to be Honest.

The Extra Weight on the Subie´s Front end, claim for a Suspension / Steering \ Brakes Upgrade. Due to the Overweighted Engine, Brakes doesn´t Handle safely, Specially at Higher Speeds (Believe me) and the Car seems to lower its Nose, creating a Weight forces goes more to the front, overloading brakes more... and Some Understeerin´& Hard Parkin´ issues may occur too... along with faster Tyres / Parts wear.

I Understand you very Good, Specially with the

... "OMG that's a flat six..." factor ...

as you Said, I also obtained my ER27 almost for free, so I think it is Natural to desire it on your RX, to make it Uncommon & Special (That factor was my Motivation too); but I have to be Honest with you, tellin´ the Issues that my ER27 Wagon have.

... you will quite possibly run into a need to alter the engine X-member extensively.. ...


Yes. Some Minor / Middle \ Major Work Shall be Needed.

... pretty sure that the trans will bolt up. ...


Yes!

... its too long and weighs too much... ...


That´s what I was Writin´ about...

Yes, you get decent power out of a bigger turbo. But it needs to be run conservatively, like no upping the boost. At least not for long periods.


Yes!, or it will become a Huge Head Gaskets Nightmare!...

Anyhow, I wish you Good Luck on your Project, and please, Keep us Updated!!! (Pics Please!) :burnout:

#15 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 02:55 AM

[quote]... there was some sort of Guide to do a Turbo Conversion on a ER27, that I saw ...[/quote]

Look at This:

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=72535

:headbang:



#16 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 03:11 AM

think there are a couple of people working on that right now. ...


Yes! ... See:

http://www.ultimates...3943#post673943



#17 Nug

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 10:40 AM

If you want unique, you could plop an ej22 in there, take the fuel injection off, and hang a pair of Weber 48ida's on there like the VW guys do.

#18 s'ko

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 12:36 PM

or you could do a EJ22t swap....
no wait... that's what I am doing...;)

On a serious note. Engine swappage is not something for the faint of heart or their first attempt at car wrenching. Sounds like you are familar w/soobies and not a noob so that's a good thing. It also sounds like you have a grasp of what it's going to take to make it work.

Do what you want to do and feel good about it. Accept the comments from others and their advice and remember that it's just that. ADVICE. You will be the one that have to do the work and you will be the one who will enjoy the benefits.

I ran into the same thing when I did a EJ18 swap into my BRAT. There was the you-shoulda-put-in-a-ej22 bandwagon. But I got the 18 for FREE and can't beat FREE.

So EJ27TT RX. heck yeah. I'd rock it. Might want to consider doing a 5 lug swap while you are at it to get the bigger EJ brakes in there.

#19 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 02:13 PM

...
So EJ27TT RX.
...


It is ER27, and might be TT :)

#20 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 02:16 PM

If you want unique, you could plop an ej22 in there, take the fuel injection off, and hang a pair of Weber 48ida's on there like the VW guys do.


it´s Really been Done? ... I want to see Pics of That!!! ... Could you post Some?

What kind of Carb is the 48ida Weber?

#21 daeron

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:47 AM

it´s Really been Done? ... I want to see Pics of That!!! ... Could you post Some?

What kind of Carb is the 48ida Weber?


Picture a sidedraft two barrel weber, like what would be run on a datsun engine.. Except its a downdraft carb, meant to be pointing the right way to install over half of a boxer engine.

Personally, my dream buggy or airboat engine would be an SVX engine with some of those on it :grin: (of course, unless I could somehow get something absurdly experimental like that F1 engine, heh...)

EDIT I did some snooping.... sorry for the huge by large image, but when I saw this I was awestruck....

Bigblock with weber goodness:
Posted Image

48mm butterflies, for the record. Ooompy.

#22 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:50 AM

...
...48mm butterflies, for the record. Ooompy.


Thank you! ... You`re so Kind!

#23 88RxTuner

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 03:30 PM

Well, thanks for all the input, guys.. Yea, I realize there's gonna be hard times and some people have different opinions.. but all opinions are worth listening to at the very least.

Loyale2.7T... Thank you for the input, and the links. I would like to briefly pick your brain, in such issues as the radiator.. where did you relocate it to? I am A/C delete, moved the alt to where the compressor was, and was thinking I could remove the condenser and push a radiator forward, go electric thin fans and be ok with that.. Maybe use a WRX radiator/fans?

When it gets off the ground, this will be a LOW budget build, supporting my family comes first and that leaves little extra cash. However, I seem to have this knack for picking up someone else's "junk" for cheap, so we'll see how far that gets me with cheap parts.. It wont be perfect, and it wont be new, and I wont splurge on things like custom forged pistons or custom radiators.. but that's half the fun of things like this, how much can I really do for cheap? (not to mention I am inherently a cheap-*ss b*st*rd...) I dunno. Well see how the next few weeks go at collecting parts. I tore the ER27 down last week, and internally it's immaculate. Provided I can accumulate the proper bits and pieces, I think I'm gonna go ahead for the TT build.
** The heads have Small cracks between the valves... I've heard this is normal and I've heard this is NOT normal... Experience? I've done a ton of EA82, NA and Turbo, and they all seem to crack and run fine that way, never seen the ER27 heads before.

#24 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:49 PM

...
Loyale2.7T... Thank you for the input, and the links. ...


You`re Welcome! :)

Well... Radiator is a Big Problem, but it can be Solved.

You can`t put any Radiator in the front, `cos the Engine doesn`t leave enough space, and also you`ll need to make and attach a welded part to hold the engine to the front (remember: ER27 is Too Large for the EA82 Designed Space)

Dad and I, did use a pair of side mounted small Radiators, connected in series, with electric fans, but it isn`t a great solution. Our Yellow Wagon Overheats easily... :-\ ...Some People did used a Lift kit, in order to obtain more Space to fit a Top Mounted ( or under Mounted :confused: ) Radiator, but it seems to be less reliable... I`m not Sure.

The more intelligent solution to that, is the one I saw at the post Nº 14 of This Thread: http://www.ultimates...?t=72160&page=2 I Suggest you to take your time and study that Option as I did, I think I`ll do that somehow, someday...

Good Luck! :burnout:

#25 Bucky92

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 05:26 PM

I would say the cracks in the heads are probably the normal ones( without seeing pics)..since the ER27 IS pretty much...an EA82 with 2 extra cylinders It is prone to the same things as the EA82s...
I dont recall you ever stating why you got that motor or the history behind it ( I am just too lazy to reread right now...headache)




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