13 replies to this topic

[Phizinza]

I've been looking at getting a Impreza sedan, late 90's model, for a while now to replace the Brumby. But now there is enough choice. I'll explain my thoughts on the Subaru first.

What I was looking at getting was either the 1.8 GX model or the 2.0 RX model (not sure if the US got the RX, but anyhow its just a 2L version of the 1.8 and 2.2 EJ's.) I would upgrade the ECU and block to a 2.2 or 2.5 EJ block. I would also get rear disc brakes, and maybe WRX front brakes for it. I would lift it 2" or so (Suspension.) Also fitting some 27 to 28 inch OD tires. I would build a AWD VLSD center Dual range EJ gearbox for it, with the 1.59:1 low range and 4.11 diff ratios. Was also looking at getting that new LPG injection that is available here in Australia now which gives anywhere from %10 to %20 more power and the same litres per 100km.

What I want it to do:
Tow a 1200kg - 1500kg total load (buggy on trailer) to and from offroad parks.
Be fairly economical.
Be sporty and fun to drive.
Be comfortable.
Able to soft offroad (things like sand dunes, trails to camping spots, all pretty easy stuff here in Australia.)


Then my brother said I should get a Toyota Surf.
If I were going to get one of these it would have to be the 3L TD (turbo diesel.) This would be a 93 to 95 model he told me.
So for the same money I could get a stock Surf which we think is coil sprung rear solid axle, IFS, blah blah. This would come stock for the amount of money I'm looking at.

Pros about this rig is:
Much better towing.
Much better offroading (which isn't necessary in my mind for what I want.)
Can run on bio diesel, with the added LPG for better economy and power (costs a fair bit, but is a future mod.)
Can get a rear locker cheaply.
Can get lots of other mods (not so cheaply, but are available.)

Cons of the Surf are:
No where near as good handling.
Not sporty to drive, won't drive rally style on the dirt roads.
Heavier and more fuel usage.
Will end up making me spend more money then I need (because I can.)
Is very generic (everyone owns one just about) and I don't like that.


I do like the look of both. But the lifted Imp would stand out more and thats my style.

Ok. So my question to everyone who is still reading is, what do you think I should get. A stocker Surf or a hotted up Imp?

[yodannyc]

Stay with subaru. If you are a true subaru enthusiest you will regret going toyota. I made that mistake. and i hated that i went to toyota. I got a lifted toyota pickup truck. and everyday i hopped in to i regreted buying it and not a subaru. I now own a 86 RX sedan and am very very happy!

[backwoodsboy]

Toyotas are great vehicles (Ive seen 'em with 600,000 miles and still going)
Either a sube or a toyota will last you just as long with proper care...... BUT,
youre on a subie board asking if you should buy a sube or a toy.

I would hafta say unless you want to REALLY offroad with this thing..... go for the subie, and enjoy all the attention you will get.

[Phizinza]

youre on a subie board asking if you should buy a sube or a toy.

I am deliberatly asking here so I get more objective answers. If I ask in a offroad forum or in a toyota forum people won't even think once with the subaru. At least here you'll say subaru but then add things about the toyota I can pick out and use to help me in getting an answer.

[crazyhorse001]

In the 'States the Surf is known as the 4-Runner. Typical Toyota things apply. They're usually dead reliable, and reliably boring, as you meet yourself at most every intersection. Toy is my 2nd fave Japaneese brand. they're just, with a few notable exceptions, boring.

Subies are rare enough that they're interesting, but common enough that parts are fairly easy to come by.

It's up to your personal preference.

[woundedbrat]

why do you need or want to replace your brumby? don't know what a toyota surf is but toyota trucks have a very good reputation. recently saw one in town for sale have to coness I considered buying it even though I already have three vehicles (two of them subes)

[Phizinza]

Yes, I agree, they are boring.

I need to move on from the Brumby. I've come to a point where if I modify it anymore its just ridiculous. It's going to be very illegal and I probably would have trouble with insurance if I ever did need to claim. As it is now its alright, but I'm still not happy with it.

Surf's are like 4-runners, 4-runners are just wagon pickups. The difference in the later model Surfs vs the Pickups (not sure what the later model 4-runners have) is 4 link coil rear suspension, which is good for comfort and suspension travel. Wagon, which is good for what I want seems I want space and 4 seats. Although the Sedan Imp would be enough space. And the Surf's normally come with all the extra nice things as standard. Like aircon, cruise, electric everything, central locking, etc...

I have to admit, I really am leaning towards the Yota. I really love Subaru, but at the moment it doesn't looks like they make the type of car I need for what I want to do. At least if I didn't have AWD I wouldn't kill myself on the next dirt road I drive on. I'm a bit of a stupid driver.

[monstaru]

when the world goes to ************,you won't be able to render your own fuel for a roo...........i have both.subie and a diesel.think about the future.

[Phizinza]

Well... Looks like its too hard to find a manual 3.0L TD Surf/4Runner.

So you may be thinking thank god, his going to stay with Subaru. But no, I'm looking at Land Rover now. Disco 300TDI. Solid front and rear axles with coil springs. And 11L/100KM economy. My EJ Brumby only gets 9L/100KM, so I reckon thats pretty damn good.

[hatchsub]

Ive been told by a buddy of mine that used to work on landrovers to never buy one. They have ungodly electrical problems apparently.

[grossgary]

the subaru maniac in me still says find one of those toyotas. you can't find one because they're that good!?!? with that much towing and that kind of weight you can't beat what the toyota is going to offer you. IMO, i hate to say it, but it'll be at least if not more reliable than an impreza. the early, base model impreza sedans aren't all that far from boring in my opinion. i like the OBS and RS, but the sedans don't do it for me. my actual opinion is not to try and have one vehicle to do everything but have dedicated vehicles - one for winter, one for summer, one for hauling/towing, one for off roading..obviously you can combine some "categories"....much simpler that way and you get to have more cars.

[Phizinza]

Ive been told by a buddy of mine that used to work on landrovers to never buy one. They have ungodly electrical problems apparently.

Yeah, I've heard lots of stuff about stuff too. But face the facts, every car has it massive list of problems. I've talked to many people on a couple of 4WD forums and one a Land Rover forum. From what I can see they are just as good as the Toy.
Yes, the pre 90's Land Rover's and Range Rover's were pretty terrible when it came to electrical side of life.

the subaru maniac in me still says find one of those toyotas. you can't find one because they're that good!?!? with that much towing and that kind of weight you can't beat what the toyota is going to offer you. IMO, i hate to say it, but it'll be at least if not more reliable than an impreza. the early, base model impreza sedans aren't all that far from boring in my opinion. i like the OBS and RS, but the sedans don't do it for me. my actual opinion is not to try and have one vehicle to do everything but have dedicated vehicles - one for winter, one for summer, one for hauling/towing, one for off roading..obviously you can combine some "categories"....much simpler that way and you get to have more cars.

I have to say, the wagons don't do it for me. The sedans have the look I like for the Subaru option.
If you lived here in Australia without a job (for the moment) you'd understand why owning two cars isn't an option. Registration and third party insurance isn't cheap. Each year I pay $640 on those two, the car will only cost $6k-$8k. Just say I get a towing vehicle and another Subaru, thats $5k-$8K plus $2k-3k plus $1280 a year. I really can't see that working. Even with a reliable job.

[grossgary]

i understand your situation. owning two cars isn't necessarily that cost prohibitive in general. more initial outlay but with the right decisions you will get more miles and reliability out of them. less headaches when mods, maintenance or repairs are needed. in the US insurance can decrease with an additional vehicle (mine did). if cost is an issue then a good option (particularly with projects/builds) is to get one that needs and engine or transmission or body work if you can do that. you can get nice late model EJ's for 3 digit price tags over here easily.

[Phizinza]

My next car is going not not have much modified. That is another reason I am looking away from Subaru. See subaru don't make the type of car I want, so I would need to upgrade brakes, and power which make it less reliable. I want a car I can just give a little lift, some bigger tyres, maybe a locker and then tow my offroader to places to play, or do some good holiday outback Aus trips.
Toyota, or Land Rover seem like the best option for that type of need. If I find a 3L TD Surf/4Runner with a manual, then I'll get it.
But I haven't found one yet. They are all auto's. Land Rover Disco with the 300TDI is popular in manual and almost as good with power. It also has a much better offroad capability. This means when I come up against something hard on a trail I won't have to thrash it to get up. I'll just be able to drive up. Thus putting less strain on all the parts. This means less time in the garage fixing it (which I hate, modding is fun though, its just fixing I hate.)
Plus, I'll have enough to worry about fixing on my Buggy.

Here the insurance doesn't drop with more cars. And the rego alone costs $280, then it has complusary third party personal which makes it upto $440. Then you really shouldn't go out without third party property (don't want to bump a $220K Merc and write it off without it.) So $640 per car per year. The dollar is pretty much the same between Aus and US these days too.. I'm looking at a job right now where I'll earn around $460 a week. Theres bills and food to come out of that. So if I have to take $25 out just to have two cars and no even drive them, it's going to hurt.