archemitis Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 this is what im working on today. im pretty sure these are the big valve heads. i stripped them, washed them, bead blasted them, and now im starting to redo the valve seats. today is pretty much exploratory, tomorrow im breaking out the die grinder, and end mill. the intake seats are horrible, Subaru put a 2 angle grind on them... 3 at best, but i barely see the third one, and theres a horrible overhang that looks like its supposed to be there, right there on the seat. and the exhaust is a 2 angle, but doesnt have the bad overhang cast into the seat.(exhaust is the small one)... and im not talking about the big aluminum shelf down in there(thats got to go too) im talking about right on the seat itself, it looks like another grinded angle, but its a wierd overhang... heres my valve seat grinder getting to work. this is an almost finished 5 angle grind, and i'll be back cutting the valves with 2 cuts as well. and this little baby will get fired up after they get all put together again. im not sure what im going to do with the valves yet, i might use the stock ones, as they arent bent or worn too bad, but i might order a set of stainless steel ones from ram. i just wanted to show everybody how much room for inprovement there is in these tiny little heads, not alot of room for enlarging ports, but proper valve, and seat angles can make a huge difference. stay tuned, more pics to come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Very nice work!! What's the valve seat profile like in that 5 angle grind? (as in what angles did you use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 15 31 46 60 75 46 being the valve seat angle and 45 and 30 on the valve 45 is where the valve hits the seat. throw in some valve grinding compound and i'll have a 40thousandths wide seat on the intake and 50 on the exhaust. exhaust gets a wider one to help with heat transfer from valve to the heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 nice work! This forum doesn't get enough high-quality engine p0rn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Are you going to clean up the intake port on the top of the head? There is a large ridge that can be ground down to increase the passage's cross sectional area. Are you willing to modify an additional set or two of heads? I need one for my wagon and one for a hi po N/A EA81. Make sure you get a before and after flow rate, so we can compare the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 i need a ************in shop you guys are having way to much fun ..... good job .can't wait to see the results. i talked to a couple of folks in town and all they wanted to do was convince me not to do anything to these heads and buy aftermarket or convert to bigger engines.once again.can't wait to see the results.cheers, brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi subbie Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 lookin good:clap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 this is the first set of ea81 heads i've done, i did my xt6 heads, but not as in depth as im going to go with these, i've also done a bunch of harley heads, which are surprisingly similar! the flow bench is set up for harley stuff right now, so i have to build a fixture to bolt the head to the machine, i also have to make it the same size and length of the subaru bore and stroke, so flow numbers will come later. i also have to find out exactly how much lift an ea81 cam has at the valve(after rocker arm geometry is factored in) stock cam +high compression, should make for some mean low end torque! i've got a set of new valves comming, the old ones were pitted enough to make valve stem protrusion an issue. any machinists/head flowin guys out there that could chime in with personal experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This would be a good one, once you're done, To have turned into a tutorial. Give the rest of us that don't have the shop to do it ourselves something to print and take to a shop that can do it. Instructions if you will, if nothing else to prove it can be done. In case we run into the same situation as monstaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 after seeing that pic daeron posted in the "gen3 heads thread" got me thinking. im pretty sure im going to put my intake valve in the exhaust port, with a larger seat machined into the head. then for the intakes, i just found out they are so close to harley valves, that i can put some 1.94"valves in the intake side. that would take me from 1.4" and 1.66" up to 1.66" and 1.94" just look at all that space between the valves! or i can just run two intake valves! i'll figure something out:headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 before you get into machining too much on the heads, you NEED to get a "before" flow test. Flow benches are tools used in the process of sculpting a cylinder head. They have no "absolute" relevance whatsoever. Flow numbers vary from bench to bench, from city to city, from day to day. Elevation, weather, air temp are just three of the WIDELY varying factors that alter the numbers. In short, whatever flow numbers you achieve with this build mean nothing to us, EXCEPT when they are compared to the "stock" flow numbers, as measured by the same person, on the same machine, with as much control on the atmospheric situation as possible. (IE, inside a temp controlled room, try to make sure weather conditions are as close as reasonably possible, etc) All you measure with a flow bench is change, not potential. It is a tool to know the changes that you made to the metal shape are good changes, and not bad ones. Just wanted to make sure that was clear. I hope those valves work out for you!! More importantly, before you go grinding your valve seats out to accept the bigger valves, make sure, via flow testing, that your ports will flow enough to justify it! If you cannot increase the flow through the port enough to justify the bigger valve, then essentially (and I *may* be misconceived on this point) the bigger valve just affords you to use less cam. Did you click through the links I posted in the splitting headache thread?? If not, I could point you towards some posts made regarding datsun L-series cylinder heads from a few VERY knowledgable guys... the information would be pertinent to the subaru world for two reasons: 1, there is some evidence to suggest that nissan had the L-series heads (or some of them anyhow) made by Fuji Heavy, and 2, alot of the info I speak about is applicable to cylinder heads in ANY engine. http://www.grapeaperacing.com i think has several great tech articles as well. Post up here, or PM me, if you want those Z-car thread links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 big valves shouldnt get in the way of bigger cams here, untill they get close to the piston. but to a degree, a bigger valve can act like a bigger cam. the flowbench is pretty cool, but its more or less a tool to get all ports the same flow, for me anyway, pretty much whatever you do will improve flow, untill you start hogging and reshaping ports alot, then it gets hit or miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 well, that ea82 head on an ea81 thread has got me going in a totaly different direction now, but i figure i have to finish these ea81 heads in the mean time. i got my valves today, and put two cuts on them. one is stock one cut, the other is the double cut one. superflow tells me they have a universal head fixture and it should be on its way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coronan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Any updates? I was hoping to see how you balance flow. I build a home made flow bench and cylinders 3 and 4 flow only 75% of 1 and 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nncoolg Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'm keen to see the other post referenced - the EA82 head on an EA81 thread and different valve sizes in a GEN 3 head thread... anyone have the links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 ... different valve sizes in a GEN 3 head thread... anyone have the links? About the three different gens of EA82 Heads, here are Photos: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122276-the-bumble-beast/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1115736 Even a Video of a 16 Valves DOHC prototype Heads working on the EA82. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 So, how 'close' are the Harley valves to Subie valves? What machining will you have to do to make them fit? I'm getting geared for a power build and was going to look at valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjet Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 On 12/5/2007 at 5:06 PM, archemitis said: ..., i did my xt6 heads, but not as in depth as im going to go with these... I'm going to get my ER27 heads done in the spring. I'm wondering how much I can mill from the surface to bump the CR up about a half point. Should I be worried about the intake manifold not fitting right after that? I'm also wondering if it will cause this engine to be an "interference" engine after that...I think these ER's are non-interference, right? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) On 2/17/2020 at 7:02 PM, tjet said: I'm going to get my ER27 heads done in the spring. I'm wondering how much I can mill from the surface to bump the CR up about a half point. Should I be worried about the intake manifold not fitting right after that? I'm also wondering if it will cause this engine to be an "interference" engine after that...I think these ER's are non-interference, right? Thanks Yes it’s a non-interference engine. If you surface the heads within Subarus prescribed head thickness limits then it seems like it would have to retain non interference. Are you planning on going beyond the factory limits? I’ve gone beyond the limits on Subaru EJ heads without intake bolt issues, so I doubt that’s a concern. Those bolt holes aren’t super tight/fitted, seems to me there’s plenty of room for thousandths of an inch. the OP I don’t think is active anymore, and hasn’t been for ages, if not a decade. I doubt you’ll get a response. Edited February 20, 2020 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, idosubaru said: the OP I don’t think is active anymore, and hasn’t been for ages, if not a decade. I doubt you’ll get a response. Not since 09/2013, and started a thread about selling his hatch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) there is alot of piston to valve clearance in that engine i dought you could remove enuff material to cause interferance but i know you can remove enuff to make the intake manifold not fit however you can make a intake manifold spacer to make the transision if the spacers are made corectly it shouldent be a issue the intake spacers do two things they increse the low end torque by making the intake runners longer that effectivly makes more air available off idle to the cylinders incresing the low end torque and they also make the transition from the factory intake to the now narrower engine the problem with the intake spacers is they have to be custom made for your engine depending on how much the block and heads were cut down so unless you feel like taking on a huge project and have a shop with alot of tooling and alot of skill be prepaired to spend alot of money and after the spacers are made everything needs to be port matched i shaved the block and the heads way down maybe a 1/4" off of each side i also ported the hay out of the intake manifold and the heads but the manifold spacers were the key to making it all work that engine although short lived had as much low end torque as my ej22 v2 if not more it was a true beast of a ea82 Edited February 24, 2020 by ferp420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjet Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Thanks for the info. On my ER27, it looks like if I mill off 0.014", I will get a 1/2 point bump in CR, so 9.5 to 10:1. My only concern is that the factory shop manual states max resurface limit is 0.012" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 hours ago, tjet said: Thanks for the info. On my ER27, it looks like if I mill off 0.014", I will get a 1/2 point bump in CR, so 9.5 to 10:1. My only concern is that the factory shop manual states max resurface limit is 0.012" I’ve gone way beyond limits on an EJ engine and it was fine. ferp just described shaving enough to require intake spacers to line up the manifold. That’s almost certainly more than 2 thou past limits. I wouldn’t even sweat 2 thou but I haven’t done it so.....??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 @GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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