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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Nasty Vibration!


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50 replies to this topic

#1 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:52 PM

ok i have a 96' legacy 2.2 with a 5 spd and for the past few weeks i have been getting a pretty nasty vibration when i turn that makes its way all around the car ( can feel it in the seats). i know what a CV joint sounds like and it definately is not that....even though i do have a torn inboard rear boot....but anyways i also noticed that sometimes i have a screaching of the tires when i go around corners when i get the noise.....My first and actually only thought is the rear differential.....the car has 186,000 miles.....anyone else ever have these symptoms?

#2 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:08 PM

5 speeds get torque bind when the viscous coupler goes bad.

That would explain the tires screaching, viabration through the entire car, and noise.

#3 Skip

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:21 PM

WA sure sounds correct, as usual.

You could remove the rear portion of the driveshaft
to prove this.

Tires all match?

#4 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:49 PM

thanks for your help guys... yeah tires do all match perfectly.....where does the torque bind occur the transmission or the rear differetial?.....

#5 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:51 PM

Viscouse coupler = center differentail. In the tail houseing of the transmission.

#6 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:53 PM

is that hard to replace or is it worth just getting a new trans?.....besides that noise the trans shifts perfectly

#7 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 04:58 PM

Viscouse coupler = ~$450-500 (list price) + gaskets gear lube, and time.

186k miles trans. may not be worth it. Hard to say.

#8 grossgary

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:00 PM

the center diff is inside the transmission. they can be replaced, someone had a dealer do it in the midwest...Cincinnati i believe recently for $500. i think they said it's replaceable without dropping the trans, but that's just from memory i've never done it. i'd probably just replace the transmission myself.

a transmission gear oil change is not a bad idea. fluid changes help the automatics with torque bind more than the manuals, but i would do one right away, it's too easy not too. some people try "concoctions" like Lucas or other additives with it, you can do a search on the board for "torque bind" and find out all sorts of information. keep in mind you'll want to read the manual transmission related stuff as the auto's and manuals have completely different failure modes and systems...just the symptoms are similar.

some questions: have you or do you ever feel it binding around turns? that should be noticeable. what's the history here? how long has it been doing this and has it gotten worse?

i don't think this is it but ball joints can also cause nasty vibrations around turns, if it was one of those or the cv i would expect it to vary based on speed, turn radius, etc...at least in the beginning.

CV's have multiple failure modes, not just clicking. a bad DOJ (even with the boot in tact with no clicking) can cause serious vibrations and no noise. though i think they will usually vibrate while driving straight too.....maybe someone else can answer if they'll only vibrate around turns.

#9 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:02 PM

well the thing that is weird is that it only occurs in the last half of a complete turn....(if i turn slightly it doesnt happen) I have checked the ball joints and they are both ok.......I do need trailing arm bushings rear sway bar links and bushings and a rear drivers side axle shaft (torn boot) do you think any of these things could contribute?

#10 Skip

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:05 PM

EVO if it is the
vicous coupling
removing
the rear portion of the drive shaft will prove it.
(eight bolts and nuts)

You could drive it like this.

Harry's has to have a tranny for you?
Callem for a price.
Or use http//:www.car-part.com

#11 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:10 PM

You don't even have to remove the transmission form the car.

Just remove the exhaust Y-pipe and converters.
Rear drive shaft.
Support trans. Remove transmission cross member.
Remove transmission tail houseing. (Not transfer case houseing.)
Pull out viscous coupler.

#12 grossgary

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:15 PM

sounds like torque bind, i agree with skip that you should check into that. how long has it been doing this?


i am very doubtful that your rear axles are causing this, though i'm not saying it's impossible. i never replace rear CV half shafts and i've never had them break, cause noise or vibrations. i've put 100,000+ miles on broken boot rear axles. my current ride has about 40,000 miles and both rear axles have torn boots...though i have new axles ready to go since the crushed coal they use on the roads in the mountains really screws with cv joints.

#13 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:16 PM

oh in that case......thank you very much WA...i was just thinking becuase i did the clutch and flywheel not 6 months ago....and nothing was happening than.....the car has a hard 186,000 miles so i really dont want to put a new trans in it.....i will have to research and get money before i attempt but thanks again for info. OH just one last question.....Is it just time and wear that makes the viscous coupler go bad? ....if im backing up making a turn and the noise comes on....i have to like floor it to move the slightest inch.

#14 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:22 PM

Another good test.

Jack up the front of the car, transmission in N. You should be able to turn both wheels the same direction. There will be resistance, but if there is so much that you can't turn them, then the coupler is locked up.

#15 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:27 PM

if im backing up making a turn and the noise comes on....i have to like floor it to move the slightest inch.


Now that deffinetly sounds like a locked up viscouse coupler.

Pre 2000 viscous couplers were not a big problem. Have replaced more 2000 and newer than older ones.

But yes, enough time and miles will wear anything out.

#16 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:30 PM

thanks again sir.....ill do a few of those tests tomarrow after work:)

#17 Skip

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:32 PM

plus someone before you could have run mismatched tires

If you try WA's test
you will need two people to turn both wheels.

#18 grossgary

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 06:34 PM

sounds like torque bind. the fluid has probably never been changed...or not enough, do that right now.

.if im backing up making a turn and the noise comes on....i have to like floor it to move the slightest inch.

WOW! crucial information. that's more important than anything else you said and is why i asked in my first post:

some questions: have you or do you ever feel it binding around turns?

it is likely something happened in the past to bring this on - mismatching tires, tires not being rotated, snows on the front, being towed improperly, fluid not changed or run low - etc.

#19 EVOthis

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 06:54 PM

I did change the trans fluid when i did the clutch about 7000 miles ago.....i did notice alot of metal on the drain plug and it was kind of brownish......

#20 WAWalker

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:21 PM

The viscous coupler is a sealed unit. Changing trans fluid will not effect it. Matter of fact if gear lube got into the viscous coupler you would lose your AWD.

Another thing to keep in mind on a 186k mile tranny, that may have had a hard life, infrequent fluid changes........................torque bind is going to take a toll on the rest of the breaings in the trans.

Just saying, how much $ do you want to invest in this tranny.

Putting a used coupler in is always an option. Specialy if you are doing the work yourself. As I said the early model couplers have had a lower failure rate than the late model units.

#21 grossgary

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 06:31 AM

The viscous coupler is a sealed unit.

yikes, forgot that!

#22 nipper

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:47 AM

yikes, forgot that!


no biscuit....

nipper

#23 Skip

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:55 AM

Let me ask this please.

As a follow up on WA's test where the front wheels were
lifted and both made to turn.....(see post #14)


IF the vicious coupling were locked.
If one rear wheel was lifted
Tranny not in Neutral.

The wheel should not turn freely.

?????
Biscuit or no...

#24 nipper

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:31 AM

I dont understand the methology for that test. The wheel should turn freely if the car is in neutral, park, or drive. Since one wheel is off the ground, the differential on that axle is operating independently of the center diff and will turn normally. Technically you can hold the driveshaft with your hands (rear) and the jacked up wheel will turn freely.

Or am i missing something

nipper

and that was porcupines biscuit, so you cant have it

#25 Skip

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:35 AM

you missed it's a manual
and
I said NOT in neutral, meaning in gear.

no biscuit for you either




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