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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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If you were building a production class subaru...


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10 replies to this topic

#1 Sister7

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 02:37 PM

So I ran across this thread: http://specialstage....ead.php?t=30365

And it got me thinking... what would be a better (faster/cheaper/more fun) choice for a production class subaru...

A FWD legacy (EJ22) or an AWD Imp (EJ18)? I would think most parts would be easier and cheaper to find for the leggy (body parts for sure), but I know you have more suspension options and rally-specific aftermarket for the imp.

How does the EJ18 compair to the EJ22? to the EA82? Is it possible to setup the FWD leggy so it doesn't plow like mad, with P class legal bolt-in suspension bits?

#2 edrach

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:50 PM

So I ran across this thread: http://specialstage....ead.php?t=30365

And it got me thinking... what would be a better (faster/cheaper/more fun) choice for a production class subaru...

A FWD legacy (EJ22) or an AWD Imp (EJ18)? I would think most parts would be easier and cheaper to find for the leggy (body parts for sure), but I know you have more suspension options and rally-specific aftermarket for the imp.

How does the EJ18 compair to the EJ22? to the EA82? Is it possible to setup the FWD leggy so it doesn't plow like mad, with P class legal bolt-in suspension bits?

A big consideration with the Impreza is its lighter weight compared to the Legacy. You'll also find that the EJ18 is a very sporty engine that just loves to rev especially if you stick with 14" tires/wheels (car is a comparitive stone with 15" or larger).

Another consideration is select your car carefully and choose one of the earlier Imprezas with the 4.11 rear.

My old '94 Impreza (the white one which I ran two years ago) was sold to Paul Eklund and he's using it as a rental car for his rallycross school. I never confirmed the fact but my suspicion is that it has the 4.11 rear since it out performed my EJ22 wagon. You might try renting it at one of Paul E's schools to see if you like it.

IMHO the EJ18 is a more reliable engine than either the EA82 and EJ22. Also, the EJ18 has more hp (and torque?) than the EA82. If cost is a consideration, the EJ18 can be had for a song compared to the EJ22.

#3 edrach

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:59 PM

I just checked your SS link and it talks about Rally America's regs for rally cars. My reply to you was specifically about rallycross where SCCA regs are quite different in that they separate Stock FWD and Stock AWD into two separate classes.

If you're building a RA car, I'd likely go with a FWD Impreza; cheaper to acquire and build; easier to learn when new to the sport.

If you're building a rallycross car, I'd definitely go with the AWD Impreza since it's more fun to drive.

#4 GLCraig

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 11:14 PM

I have another option for you unless RA has changed some of their rules. You could build a Subaru to run in the G2 class since that class is open to novice drivers.

You could start with an AWD impreza or legacy and prep it similar to a PGT car except you will need to replace the AWD transmission with a 2wd transmission and take out the rest of the bits that send power to the back wheels. Then once you are ready to jump up to PGT or Open class, you will have a car that's ready to go.

#5 mellow65

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 02:34 PM

So I ran across this thread: http://specialstage....ead.php?t=30365

And it got me thinking... what would be a better (faster/cheaper/more fun) choice for a production class subaru...

A FWD legacy (EJ22) or an AWD Imp (EJ18)? I would think most parts would be easier and cheaper to find for the leggy (body parts for sure), but I know you have more suspension options and rally-specific aftermarket for the imp.

How does the EJ18 compair to the EJ22? to the EA82? Is it possible to setup the FWD leggy so it doesn't plow like mad, with P class legal bolt-in suspension bits?


faster=legacy, cheaper=legacy, more fun, well that ones up in the air. i have a blast in my legacy, but a impreza would be fun too.

it's true that they have much more listed for suspension parts for an impreza, but you have to remember that subarus are legos, all 93-01 impreza suspension fits the legacys. I am now running stock 04 STI suspension in my legacy and all I had to do was modify the upper rear strut mounts. From what I read and hear from people the STI stuff is a decent place to start with suspension. Good spring rate, strong inverted struts, good dampening.

Like Ed said the 1.8 is a great little motor, you just got to keep the big wheels away from it. You also can't go wrong with the 2.2 either. Just has a little more power. I would stay away from the ea82, under powered, blown head gaskets, just more problems then they are worth. If you remember from the rally school there was a ea82 wagon that after it's first rally cross run was puking antifreeze all over the ground and it was done for the day.

As for not plowing, it's just the nature of the beast. Put some bigger rear sway bars on the rear and toss it into corners and you will get some nice over steer.

Now lets talk about cheap, all rally people want to do things on the cheap and the production classes, although they sound like the cheap place to start, aren't. G2 is where I would recommend where everyone starts. Because if you really read the rule book and follow the production rules, you could not replace a body panel from a different year car, because that would be updating or back dating. Stupid sounding I know but that's the rules. Now true no one would ever really bust you for something like that, but you have to realize that the cars you are looking at are getting up in the years and you want to be able to do what you want to it to get it out there and race. You don't want to be sitting there asking yourself, "is this legal within the rules of production".

that's just my two cents. If I was me, stick with the legacy, they all came with 4 wheel disc brakes, the 2.2 with a 5 speed fwd is really a rocket, parts are cheap and plentiful. And you can still do all the suspension and sway bars upgrades you want. Also the 2.2 fwd shares the same clutch and front axles of it's awd counterpart vs the impreza fwd has different clutches and front axles.

I have been thinking of swapping from open to G2. For a couple reasons, but mainly to be closer to a group of people with the same power as I have. But maybe the next car. Either way I wont ever win, I'm just out for the fun of it.

#6 Sister7

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:35 PM

Thanks for the reply Mellow! That's exactly the kind of response I was looking for. My commuter is '93 legacy (with an autobox) and it always seems to pleasently suprise me whenever I really get on it. I can't help but think it would be quite fun with a 5spd behind that torqey little 2.2. I'm not seriously thinking about buying/building a stage car just yet... but definitely someday. Maybe look for me around DooWops 2010!

Ed, you needn't worry about what's the most fun for rallyx. I think I have that covered! My dear RX is running as fierce as ever and we can't wait for the season to start!

#7 testy

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 12:54 AM

Why not a leggy with AWD?

#8 Sister7

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 01:51 AM

Why not a leggy with AWD?


That would bump you up into "production GT" where you would be competing against turbo cars (WRX etc.) The Rally America rules site (see http://www.rally-america.com/rules.php) has all the details if you're interested.

#9 mellow65

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 04:43 AM

Why not a leggy with AWD?


then you end up like i am, an under powered chunky car that is in the same class as a wrx. and if i wanted to do any upgrades that are not allowed within the production rules then you be bumped up to open class. then you are running with the big boys. you are talking no budget, big company's sponsoring the car anything they want they can get.

now for me i don't give a flying rats rump roast what class i run in. so i go in my 90 legacy and run in the open class just for the hell of it. it's cheaper, i don't have to worry about any of the silly rules of production. I still get to run the same roads, i still get to have a blast. i just will never be at the front of the pack. But I know what cars i am compare with so i sit down with the results and make my own class. kind of the awd none turbo class.

so no i will never win, but i never plan on doing that. for me it's just a hobby, a really expensive hobby, but a hobby none the less.

#10 RallyKeith

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 02:52 PM

Having gone from Rallying Legacys to Rallying Imprezas I will simpley say don't waste your time with a Legacy. The Impreza is a much stiffer chassis with a lower center of gravity. It is rather amazing the difference in how a 93 Legacy drives compared to a 93 Impreza. The Impreza chassis simpley out performs the Legacy.

Keith

#11 mellow65

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 03:35 PM

Having gone from Rallying Legacys to Rallying Imprezas I will simpley say don't waste your time with a Legacy. The Impreza is a much stiffer chassis with a lower center of gravity. It is rather amazing the difference in how a 93 Legacy drives compared to a 93 Impreza. The Impreza chassis simpley out performs the Legacy.

Keith



i hope to find that out some day, but i need to get some major usage out of the legacy first




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