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86 hatch d/r 4spd - shifter strangely moving to the right.


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16 replies to this topic

#1 Greenley

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 03:12 AM

On my 86 hatch, it seems as if the shifter is moving towards the passenger side. A week ago it was tough to get into reverse, yesterday it was a 5 minute PITA, and now it won't go into reverse at all. 4th is where reverse should be and 1st is where 3rd should be. Tried to search something up but to no avail. WTF is up with my tranny ?

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 03:26 AM

4 speed linkages suck. It's best to drop the tranny if you intend to redo the linkage properly. Although some have done them in-place.

The tranny shift rod has a hole in it that lines up with the hole in the sleeve for the shifter - they are pinned together with a roll pin inside another roll pin and then a special "capped" cotter pin inside both of those. It's strange, it's weird, and for all it's weirdness it didn't work well either.

The problem is that the shift rod itself is what wears, and of course it's the one part of the linkage you can't replace without splitting the transmission open.

You have a couple options at this point. In order of preference (yes, I'm serious):

1. Install an EA82 5 speed.

2. Fix the linkage.... ALL the problems with it. It's possible, and I have a pretty darn good idea of how I would do it. But it requires some welding skills, patience, and you absolutely HAVE to drop the tranny for it. I've done all the methods below (except #3 because I'm not THAT ghetto :rolleyes:), and I'm certain I could fix one and make it stick. BUT #1 is so much better of an option all around that I've never bothered.

3. Weld it solid. Great option for fixing the problem, but getting it apart again would seriously suck. Tractor mechanics only of course....

4. Cut a slot in the sleeve for clamping force, drill out both the sleeve and the rod to 3/8" and bolt them together. This works well for a while, but will eventually loosen up again. The slight amount of movement wears down the clamping surfaces as they are smooth. You could perhaps cross-hatch both the rod and the inside of the sleeve to make them grip better, but if you do that you have to drop the tranny and you may as well ask me about #2.... wherein my answer will certainly be "why aren't you doing #1 ?!?!"

5. Bolt the linkage together using a bolt the approximate size of the old roll-pins..... half assed version of #4. Will loosen quicker than #4 and wear out the hole in the rod even faster.

6. Replace the roll pin..... probably not even much good at this point.

7. Who needs reverse anyway? Get out and push.

GD

#3 xoomer

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 03:29 AM

have you the linkage?? i hear that the 4speed has crapy linkage

#4 Greenley

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:15 AM

Thanks for the thorough response, although i hate to hear the truth of the matter. With no welding skills, no garage, and minimal tools... it looks like i'm stuck with #7 for a while until i find someone local a little more mechanically equipped than i to show me the way to #1. I'm not a complete bozo and am motivated to learn;)

4 speed linkages suck. It's best to drop the tranny if you intend to redo the linkage properly. Although some have done them in-place.

The tranny shift rod has a hole in it that lines up with the hole in the sleeve for the shifter - they are pinned together with a roll pin inside another roll pin and then a special "capped" cotter pin inside both of those. It's strange, it's weird, and for all it's weirdness it didn't work well either.

The problem is that the shift rod itself is what wears, and of course it's the one part you can't replace without splitting the transmission open.

You have a couple options at this point. In order of preference (yes, I'm serious):

1. Install an EA82 5 speed.

2. Fix the linkage.... ALL the problems with it. It's possible, and I have a pretty darn good idea of how I would do it. But it requires some welding skills, patience, and you absolutely HAVE to drop the tranny for it. I've done all the methods below (except #3 because I'm not THAT ghetto :rolleyes:), and I'm certain I could fix one and make it stick. BUT #1 is so much better of an option all around that I've never bothered.

3. Weld it solid. Great option for fixing the problem, but getting it apart again would seriously suck. Tractor mechanics only of course....

4. Cut a slot in the sleeve for clamping force, drill out both the sleeve and the rod to 3/8" and bolt them together. This works well for a while, but will eventually loosen up again. The slight amount of movement wears down the clamping surfaces as they are smooth. You could perhaps cross-hatch both the rod and the inside of the sleeve to make them grip better, but if you do that you have to drop the tranny and you may as well ask me about #2.... wherein my answer will certainly be "why aren't you doing #1 ?!?!"

5. Bolt the linkage together using a bolt the approximate size of the old roll-pins..... half assed version of #4. Will loosen quicker than #4 and wear out the hole in the rod even faster.

6. Replace the roll pin..... probably not even much good at this point.

7. Who needs reverse anyway? Get out and push.

GD



#5 Skip

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 12:34 PM

Mr. Greenly sir,

Congrats to you for this
"I'm not a complete bozo and am motivated to learn"

I had to repair the same problem with my EA81 shifter
an what GD says is true to some end
but
my fix has lasted for three years and shows no signs
of getting sloppy.

I did my fix by working in the car and under it
no tranny removal was ness.
No welder needed but a hack saw (saws all)
and vise is nice.

If you would like to try this, I will
do the search for the article or
post pictures of the proceedure.

Here is one but not the one I had in mind.
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=49954

The Fix#1 line in the article is shown here.
I also made mine a "short shift" with the mods
shown so please ignore the "raised..." and "spacer" items
Posted Image


Hope this helps

#6 Frank B

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:17 PM

So what did you do for the fix Skip, increse the slot length and install the bolt? I haven't had a good look at the linkage.

#7 Skip

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:26 PM

Hi Frank, exactly I also made the slot
two blade width wide
Critical to make the slot long enough!

The bolt is a Subaru bolt which uses a 12mm wrench to
tighten.

I don't remember having to drill the hole larger.

#8 Skip

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:32 PM

sorry for not remembering the details
went back and checked that picture's date

Late 2004, still as tight as when I did the mod.

#9 Frank B

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:50 PM

Thanks Skip, I'll put this on my list.

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:19 PM

So what did you do for the fix Skip, increse the slot length and install the bolt? I haven't had a good look at the linkage.


There is no slot - you have to CREATE the slot.

That's actually a photo-shopped picture of my transmission when I did that mod a few years back. Mick photo-shopped it to show the short shifter mod, and he made the slot longer. Making the slot longer should help. In that picture the bolt being used is a 3/8" because I drilled both of them out so there wouldn't be as much play. Of course it was done with the tranny out of the car. Otherwise taking that picture would be nigh impossible.

What I experienced, and the reason I don't think making the slot longer would work for me personally, is that the smooth inner sufaces of the rod and the sleeve still have no real gripping ability on each other. I'm a "spirited" driver, and I'll shift as fast as the tranny can handle - with Redline synthetic. In doing so I exert enough force on the gear shift when it hits it's limits of travel that it eventually works loose again. I've had to tighten it up a couple times. It's not easy to move, but it does move, and the hammering action of my shifting doesn't do it any favors.

The other reason I don't like cutting the slot is that it precludes the new fix I've come up with..... but then I've never tried that fix as it's just silly to not install the 5 speeds....

It's worth a try - it does work for a while - we have consensus on that. If it doesn't loosen for you, then great. If it does maybe by then you'll be up for the 5 speed anyway.

GD

#11 brokebill

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:53 PM

On my 86 hatch, it seems as if the shifter is moving towards the passenger side. A week ago it was tough to get into reverse, yesterday it was a 5 minute PITA, and now it won't go into reverse at all. 4th is where reverse should be and 1st is where 3rd should be. Tried to search something up but to no avail. WTF is up with my tranny ?

probably not your problem but in my 86 5spd wagon the shifter suddenly dropped straight down as i was shifting gears.where the shifter braces underneath had come undone allowing it to just hang free.twisted a coathanger(and ductape) around and holds it fine. think maybe something like that has slid it to the right where your gearshifer is against the side of the hole in the floor?probably not but its nice when it turns out to be something simple.

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 04:15 PM

probably not your problem but in my 86 5spd wagon the shifter suddenly dropped straight down as i was shifting gears.


5 speed linkages are completely different. 4 speed's don't have the linkage "shelf" you are refering to as the transmission is physically longer and serves as it's own linkage pivot point. See the above image posted by Skip....

GD

#13 Greenley

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Skip.

It looks like something i could probably tackle, although the instructions are rather vague. Is there any chance of something like a step by step diagram being available. Methinks this can be done with a bit more direction. As GD suggested, this would be a fix that would allow me time to work up to the 5 spd swap, which ultimately seems like the long tem solution.

*edit* - I must be overthinking this whole thing.
Basically an 8mm bolt will drop right into the hole where the roll pins are/were, so all that needs to be done is the sawing of the slit in the sleeve for clamping force?
My question now, is how do you get the rod out of the sleeve or vice versa?!

#14 STi 22B

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 11:43 PM

Mr. Greenly sir,

Congrats to you for this
"I'm not a complete bozo and am motivated to learn"

I had to repair the same problem with my EA81 shifter
an what GD says is true to some end
but
my fix has lasted for three years and shows no signs
of getting sloppy.

I did my fix by working in the car and under it
no tranny removal was ness.
No welder needed but a hack saw (saws all)
and vise is nice.

If you would like to try this, I will
do the search for the article or
post pictures of the proceedure.

Here is one but not the one I had in mind.
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=49954

The Fix#1 line in the article is shown here.
I also made mine a "short shift" with the mods
shown so please ignore the "raised..." and "spacer" items
Posted Image


Hope this helps


Nice work Skip :headbang:

I think you should post this piece of ingenuity in the USRM section...

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 11:52 PM

Nice work Skip :headbang:

I think you should post this piece of ingenuity in the USRM section...


It's been here for years. I probably took that picture 4 years ago or more. It should already be in the USRM or in the old version - check the links on the home page.

GD

#16 Skip

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 03:24 PM

Thanks STi22B
GD's original picture had the slot
that needs cut but
showed it cut too short
and no bolt size shown.

I also modified it to show
how to make an EA81 short shifter.
I believe Mick may have used my chopped version
I will not swear to that.

Mr. Greenly sir. Yes, as you said.
and noted by GD.
After using a drift to remove the roll pins from below.
(these are now in the hole where the bolt is
a small cotter pin in the middle and two pins
one inside the other.)

Removing the in the car covers the spring can be removed
and the entire assmbly lifted out for cutting the slot.

I remember using a nylon sink water valve washer to correct
the slop in the lower pivot bushing.

The bolt sized as noted
will fit into the hole where the roll pins were
removed, no drilling necessary as I remember.

I don't drive like the late Colin McRea
maybe that's why it's worked fine for so long?

Hope this helps.

#17 STi 22B

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:23 PM

It's been here for years. I probably took that picture 4 years ago or more. It should already be in the USRM or in the old version - check the links on the home page.

GD


Sorry GD, looks great and I love the short shifter bit ... I did look first but I must have had too many Crown and 7's :grin:




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