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2003 Outback H6 Timing Chain Tensioners Question


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48 replies to this topic

#1 dbullen

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 03:50 PM

Looking at buying a 2002 or 2003 Outback.

Is there any major differences between the years?
Any thing specific I should look out for?

Currently going to look at an 2003 Outback H6 with leather and dual sunroofs. Anything different about this motor that I need to ask? Also what is the difference between the Limited Model, LL Bean Model, and say an H6 with all options?

Any help is greatly apreshiated.

I currently own a 96 Legacy Outback with the 2.5, and before that a 99 Legacy outback with 2.5, luckily I never ran into any head gasket issues.

#2 porcupine73

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:14 PM

This kind of question is where cars101.com really shines.

I was going to just copy and paste some relevant info but wow cars101.com is so rich in content it's easier to just go there --> http://www.cars101.c...html#03features

#3 Skip

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:15 PM

Halifax as in NS?

We own an 03 H6 with all the trinkets (70 Kmi)
They were sold here as the "VDC"

The VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) helps a lot in the snow.
Heated seats, mirrors and windshield
sure are nice this time of year.
Real nice MacIntosh 6 CD indash stereo.

I didn't want to drive an advertisement for LL Bean.

The H6 has not shown the problems the earlier EJ25s have.
No timing belt keep the oil clean and it's supposed to be
trouble free for 200 kmi.

Spark plug changes -- well lets not go into that.

The years you ask about are the years when they got the
EJ25 corrected or so the board info goes.

Hope some of this helps.

#4 Rooster2

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 05:03 PM

Looking at buying a 2002 or 2003 Outback.

Is there any major differences between the years?
Any thing specific I should look out for?

Currently going to look at an 2003 Outback H6 with leather and dual sunroofs. Anything different about this motor that I need to ask? Also what is the difference between the Limited Model, LL Bean Model, and say an H6 with all options?

Any help is greatly apreshiated.

I currently own a 96 Legacy Outback with the 2.5, and before that a 99 Legacy outback with 2.5, luckily I never ran into any head gasket issues.




Gas milage for the 6 cylinder is at best 24 mpg on the open road, around 20 mpg around town. Expect to buy more gas compared to the 2.5 motor.

#5 Skip

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 05:15 PM

I do not want to disagree
with the Rooster

but we get 28 - 24 in our VDC
about the same as all of our other EJ22
Legacys we have except for the turbo models.

Note this is the pretty half's ride and it is treated
rather polietly.

#6 keltik

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 11:33 PM

In my '02 "H6" I see around 28mpg open road driving and we dont have traffic so around town is about the same. Nowhere near as bad on juice as my EJ20H was - they suck.

#7 srs_49

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:34 PM

We have a 2002 H6, LLBean Edition. I don't think we've ever gotten more then 25 mpg on the road. May have eeked out 26 once - don't have mileage records with me to be sure.

#8 Skip

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:42 PM

My humble appologies to Mr. Dbullen.

It was not my intent to turn this into mileage debate.

You may use more petrol in the H6 or it may be close
to the 4 cyl.

I would like to steer thi more in reference to your question.

We drove both the Limited OB (4 cyl) and the VDC (H6)
back to back - both brand new.

The ride, power, comfort, road noise (see the note on this in the link) were so far superior in the VDC as
compared to the Limited....

To us it was a no-brainer.
Hope this helps.

#9 srs_49

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:17 AM

I agree with Skip. We liked the improved performance of the H6 compared to the H4 and were willing to pay the penalty in reduced gas mileage.

BTW, we have over 106,000 miles on our '02 OBW H6 and are still very pleased with it overall.

#10 The Dude

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:46 PM

Understand that the timing chain on the H6 typically needs to be replaced at around 150,000 miles. You might want to get a quote to do the job from your local Subaru dealer, I hear that it's pretty expensive maintenance item.

#11 nipper

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:50 PM

Understand that the timing chain on the H6 typically needs to be replaced at around 150,000 miles. You might want to get a quote to do the job from your local Subaru dealer, I hear that it's pretty expensive maintenance item.


Where did you get that number, im curious.

and yes there are 100 bolts to remove to get to the timing chain. Someone at subaru when hardware happy.

nipper

#12 keltik

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:07 PM

Where did you get that number, im curious.

and yes there are 100 bolts to remove to get to the timing chain. Someone at subaru when hardware happy.


Parts Supplier: "Ill give 'em to you cheap but only if you buy ten million..."

But yes, i too am curious to hear about the replacement or service interval.

#13 chadwick35/04

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:03 AM

Where did you get that number, im curious.

and yes there are 100 bolts to remove to get to the timing chain. Someone at subaru when hardware happy.

nipper

I thought that the timing chain was good with the life of the car? I thought those didnt have to be replaced? Let me know I am rather curious.

#14 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:10 AM

I thought that the timing chain was good with the life of the car? I thought those didnt have to be replaced? Let me know I am rather curious.


In theory, but in all honesty, we drive these things for over 200,000 miles, and mechanical parts dont last for ever. Things do wear out. Also no one has hit high mileage yet with one, so we really dont know. ALso the "life of the car" is usually detrmined by the first major repair bill over 100,000 miles, and that is usually an engine (head gasket, rod bearing) or a blown tranny repair that is used to determine when that life is over.

Technically Blus life was over when he threw a connecting rod. He just had an owner that saw the benefit of dropping a chunk of change in him for a second life.

nipper

#15 Skip

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:25 AM

I own one so I to am interested.
I have seen no verification of this statement.

I did read our lovely lady Emily of CCR inc say
they need good oil to keep the tensioner proper.

But she mentioned no mileage figure.

My bet ...
some one left the oil change go
the tesioner went south
and an
urban legend was born.

#16 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:43 AM

I own one so I to am interested.
I have seen no verification of this statement.

I did read our lovely lady Emily of CCR inc say
they need good oil to keep the tensioner proper.

But she mentioned no mileage figure.

My bet ...
some one left the oil change go
the tesioner went south
and an
urban legend was born.


In the days before tensioners, chains would wear out when they had a realativly short distance between gears at about 120,000 miles. Some would last longer, some less.

A timing chain is really a complicated part, with lots of places for stretching to occur. With 100's of links, it doesnt take much stretch per link to add up. I wouldnt expect one to last for ever.

It doesnt matter if the thing is bathed in virgin oil thats changed every month. With heat, and the pulses of load that the chain sees, plus temperiture variations, I would expect (like bmw) 200,000 to be a nice long life, I would not expect it to be the life of the car, in the way that we on this board define the life of a subaru (drive till the doors fall off).

Besides, look at all the six cylinders we get to play with that are scraped due to a tired timing chain :)

:burnout:

nipper

#17 The Dude

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:08 AM

Where did you get that number, im curious.

and yes there are 100 bolts to remove to get to the timing chain. Someone at subaru when hardware happy.

nipper


Good question, Nipper. Because as with many things Subaru, there doesn't seem to be a lot of hard data availabe. I frequent a number of Subaru/automotive message boards. I recall, that on a number of occasions, the poster seemed disappointed that a timing chain replacement was required at around 150,000 miles. I also remember that the posters were not too happy with the bottom line on the repair order.
There are a lot of expensive machined parts that have to be replaced
with a timing chain replacement. All the metal cams, chain guides, tensioners, idlers, and, of couse, an expensive timing chain. A good deal of shop rate labor is required to remove and replace all these parts along with the 100 bolts just to access the timing chain.
So, is 150,000 miles typical for a H6 timing chain replacement? I honestly don't know. But soon, we all will know because the first group of H6s will be hitting that mileage marker.
Of course, there is one thing that we can be sure of now, the cost of timing chain repalcement on a H6. We have few people on this board who work for Subaru dealerships. So, can anyone provide the cost for a H6 timing chain replacement?

#18 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:27 AM

Lets see, 1st subaru

Left chain 59.95
Right chain59.95
#1 tensioner 43.37
#2 tensioner 68.58
#3 Tensioner 68.58
#4 tensioner 68.58
Right Idler Gear 40.87
Left Idler Gear 34.95
#1 Guide 46.80
#2 Guide 26.00
#3 Guide 17.32
#4 Guide 34.67
#5 guide 26.00

(eek didnt realize the 6 was a DOHC)

right intake cam gear 65.00
right exhaust cam gear 60.88
Left Intake 56.32
Right exhaust 56.32

(that makes no sense)

Crankshaft gear (which in the old days you never replaced) 31.95

Water pump 116.95

I cant find the seals.

Worse case scenario (which after 200,000 is reasonable). These are MSRP.

parts alone are 983.44. Add another 20 for seals i imagine, and what ever sooby gets for coolant.

A brand new short block is 2514.87


scary. I guess a timing chain for most people would determin the life of the car.

I will stick timing belts thank you.

nipper

EDIT you can probably drop the cam gear prices, but i am not 100% sure on that. The drawing isnt clear on how or which gear drives the cam shafts. It looks like the chain drives the intake cam, and the exhaust runs off the intake cam.

#19 Skip

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:33 AM

YIKES!!
I'm going out to change my oil right now.

Would this be an advantagous place to use syth
over dino??

#20 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:37 AM

YIKES!!
I'm going out to change my oil right now.

Would this be an advantagous place to use syth
over dino??


Doesnt matter as long as you change it regularly. Dino vs Synthetic is an entirely different thread.. and much safer to talk religon :)

nipper

#21 Skip

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:44 AM

Thanks for your opinion Nipper

but I'll wait for some other input.

#22 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:49 AM

Fine dont beleive me about regular oil changes

:-p

nipper

#23 The Dude

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:52 AM

C'mon, Nipper. 1st Subaru is a discount parts seller. When Joe Tribeca owner brings his SUV into his LOCAL Subaru dealer for a timing chain replacement are they going to let him bring his own discount parts that he bought from 1st Subaru? I'm thinking not, Nipper. I'm thinking the the local dealer is going to insist that they install local dealership supplied parts at FULL LIST. So, unless Joe Subaru is doing the timing chain replacement on his lonesome, you need to increase your price parts by THIRTY to THIRTY FIVE per cent.
And I'd still like to know the number for LABOR for doing the chain replacement at full SHOP rates. Cheap, it's not.

#24 nipper

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:54 AM

C'mon, Nipper. 1st Subaru is a discount parts seller. When Joe Tribeca owner brings his SUV into his LOCAL Subaru dealer for a timing chain replacement are they going to him bring his own discount parts that he bought from 1st Subaru? I'm thinking not, Nipper. I'm thinking the the local dealer is going to insist that they install local dealership supplied parts at FULL LIST. So, unless Joe Subaru is doing the timing chain replacemet on his lonesome, you need to increase your price parts by THIRTY to THIRTY FIVE per cent.
And I'd still like to know the number for LABOR for doing the chain replacement at full SHOP rates. Cheap, it's not.


YO dude, i quoted the MSRP not thier discounted prices. I even said that in the thread.

Either way we are talking almost a grand in parts, so the point i sort of moot. Its just damn expensive.

EDIT my apologies DUDE, i said that in the first draft. Since USMB had been flaky i had been writing it on word then posting. Aparently it didnt make it here. I am guessing 6-8hrs labor, so add another 800

nipper

#25 Skip

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:57 AM

We need a new forum

"Ask Emily"




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