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Gen 3 starter issue


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13 replies to this topic

#1 one eye

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 07:47 PM

I have now had 2 gen 3 wagons that every time I go to start, all it does is click, sorta like the battery is dead but its not. I don't know if it is in the ign. switch or the starter. I just put a new motor in it and want to crank it over but all the more I get is that friggin "click". I don't want to dive into the wrong part and make more work for my self so I figured someone on here would know.

Jeff

#2 Cougar

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

The click you are hearing may be coming from the starter solenoid. If so, then the trouble may be with the solenoid contacts. They wear out over time and can be replaced. See if there is 12 volts getting to the small wire on the solenoid when you turn the key to START. If that is good and the main battery connections are good then that most likely is the trouble. It could also be the starter motor too.

Here is a link to a nice post someone made on how to change the contacts.

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=1435169

#3 one eye

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:17 PM

If I were to just change out the whole starter that would take care of it too wouldn't it?

Jeff

#4 Cougar

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 08:29 PM

Most likely, but you first need to make sure that 12 volts is getting to the small wire on the solenoid and to the main battery lead terminal on the starter when the key is turned to START. If both of those points are at 12 volts then the trouble is with the starter. Other possible trouble could be the main battery lead is corroded internally near the battery or the clicking you hear may be something other than the starter solenoid, in which case the inhibit switch may be the trouble.

#5 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 09:01 PM

I think it's your ignition switch. What some people do is put in a starter switch that goes directly to the starter.

Read this thread...

#6 daeron

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 11:45 AM

Or, if the problem is determined to be in the ignition switch circuit, you could add a relay to take the switching load off of the 20+ year old ignition switch. Pushbuttons are all well and good, but.... let me put it this way. It took ~20 years for the quality component built by Fuji Heavy Industries to fail in this duty.

You could replace it with a cheapo, made in china pushbutton switch... or you could use a quality bosch relay, of a type used millions of times over in the world, and not have to worry about the problem ever again.

It's your call; I have yet to hear of any fires caused by installing a pushbutton starter switch. *I* sure wasn't going to be the first though :rolleyes:

#7 one eye

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:01 PM

I got it to start working, just by clicking it for about, no joke, 45 min straight.:rolleyes: All of a sudden she was just like new. I will have to replace it soon so all the info I got will be used. thanks guys

Jeff

#8 Gloyale

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:07 PM

Did you try piutting 12v directly to the solenoid? If it spins every time that way then the problem is in the switch. If it is still intermittent, then the contacts in the starter may need cleaned/replaced. But my money i on the switch (I actaully have yet to see a factory starter fail)

Add a fused wire from a good 12v source and run a pushbutton. Set it up with a relay if you like, but the there really isn't a need. All you need is 6feet of wire, a female pade, and a pushbutton.

#9 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:46 PM

They make "Starter Buttons" that are built to take the load of starting.

#10 Skip

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 01:07 PM

I have also had many Subes of the vintage
you speak, several of which had this problem.

15 minute fix,
no starter removal
no mystery button
Hope this helps
Posted Image

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 01:36 PM

<<<<<< sets needle on record >>>>>>

Just adding a relay still relies on the failing switch. It will continue to build carbon on it's contacts, and eventually will not conduct enough amperage for a the relay, leaving you back the owner back to square one.

I always wire in a pushbutton for myself.

If it is for a customer, who wants to retain the full "stock" effect, I wire a relay. But install a pushbutton discreetly under dash, parallel to the ignition switch, in case of future failure, so they aren't stuck somewhere.

#12 Skip

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 01:55 PM

------------>>rewinds the tape again<<-------------

The current needed to trigger the relay is so small
the ig switch will provide this for years.
Repeat ... I have never had an ig sw fail
to a point that it would not pull the relay closed.

Do as you wish.

You can always add the magic button later to trigger the
relay.
Now you'd have the best of both worlds.

#13 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 02:29 PM

You could do as I did with my offroad wagon. I took the ignition out completely. I wired one of those switches with the red protective cover to turn the ignition on and another to turn the accessories on. Looks pretty cool. I still have a push button.

Come to think of it, if I didn't know better, I'd think that all subes came with push button, all 5 of my old gens had them, before I owned them...weird.

#14 daeron

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 03:54 PM

My best friend in high school was something of a mechanical genius. His father was a longtime diesel equipment mechanic, and he and his brothers were all fairly intelligent guys. They did things the right way, they fused things they were supposed to, and they knew they did these things the right way because they all liked to play games with electronic accessories on their cars.



Then one day, his younger brothers Camaro burned to the ground from some wiring issue with his stereo. No NASA-style post mortem investigation; no one ever found out EXACTLY what caused the fire. Just an errant spark.


Phizinza damn near burned his fantastic brumby to the ground last fall. Just someone try to say he is a drop shy of 110% competent in his fabrication/builder skills.

Electricity and gasoline are two things on an automobile NEVER to play games with. Thats what relays were invented for. Granted, there are ways to solve this issue without the relay...... but to do anything else with proper safety engineered into it (meaning fallbacks engineered in place for the inevitable failure of a perfect install) is far more expensive, because you need to get top-quality switches and fusing.

All the "high" current wiring for my starter solenoid (all two feet of it) is running a pathway under my hood, away from all other plastic, rubber, and combustible bits. When something goes wrong there (it may take decades longer than I have the car, but it WILL fail) it will only harm itself.


Failure is not a possibility; it is inevitable. When that inevitablity is not taken into account, the door to catastrophe is left open. Granted, in this case its only a crack.. but a crack is enough to kill a Camaro.

Posted Image

When potential consequences are this dire, miniscule risk becomes amplified in any good engineer's head. I have seen my car beginning to burn; rest assured, it changes your life.


I think this is Phiz's brumby:
Posted Image

Now, am I being an old maid about it?? Maybe. But this old maid will NOT be getting hot in the near future.




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