Knichol Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 After doing some research I ended up with more questions than answers. If anyone has any more information I would be very grateful. Statement 1) R160 4.44 Gearing only came on some 98-03 2.5RS's? False - It also comes stock on: Some new models as well, Manual Outbacks and Forresters? Statement 2) R160's with 4.44 gears only come with "inverted" (there must be a better term) axle connection rather than the axle stubs we (the EA82 crowd) are use to? True - Not certian though Statement 3) The cv axles can be modified to make the inverted or inner axle stub work with the EA82 axles? Maybe True? inner CV joint off of the EA's can be modified to make the internal axle stub work, although I don't know the specifics. Question 2) Can the ring and pinion of the 4.44 fit into the 3.9 R160 case? Question 3) Can the axle stubs be changed so that the external axle stubs can be placed on the 4.44 r160 housing? Unproven Please correct any of the statements if they are incorrect. Thank you guys for any/all of your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Statement 1) 4.44 Gearing only came on some 98-03 2.5RS's? True or false?false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Question 1) Does the ring of the 4.44 match the pinion of the 3.9? (much like the 3.7LSD swap)? Pinion and ring must be matched set. Perhaps you are confusing *pinion* with *diff carrier* The pinion is the small gear that drive the Ring gear. The Ring gear, or Crown Gear, bolts to the diff carrier. The diff carrier contains the spider and bevel gears, and the LSD unit. The common 3.7 LSD swap is to put the 3.9 ring gear onto the diff carrier/LSD unit from a 3.7 LSD. The 3.9 ring and pinion stay toghether. The 3.7 ring gear is not re-used with the 3.9 pinion, nor vice-versa. If it were, it probably wouldn't turn. If it did, it would chew itself up very quickly. You must use a whole 4.44 diff, or swap both ring and pinion onto a donor, which would be pointless as they already exit as whole diffs that would bolt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Pinion and ring must be matched set. Perhaps you are confusing *pinion* with *diff carrier* The pinion is the small gear that drive the Ring gear. The Ring gear, or Crown Gear, bolts to the diff carrier. The diff carrier contains the spider and bevel gears, and the LSD unit. Opps, no, I just didn't think about what I was typing, I completely spaced on that. Question 1 deleted. You must use a whole 4.44 diff, or swap both ring and pinion onto a donor, which would be pointless as they already exit as whole diffs that would bolt in. What 4.44 diffs bolt directly in? Thank Gloyale for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 false. Good! Does it come on stock on something older that has the external axle stubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Good! Does it come on stock on something older that has the external axle stubs? I don't think so. I believe most newer manual? Outbacks are 4.44 R160s. They have the newer, *inverted* setup. 2 options. EJ(legacy/imp/forrester) inner CV joints mated to EA82 or 81 Axles(what is this going in???) Or, I think it is possible to install the external stubs into the newer diff, but I am not sure. It may require a bit of machining. I think the lowset geared r160 you can get that will bolt in to a EA with zero modification is 4.11, from manual 90-94 Legacies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 I don't think so. I believe most newer manual? Outbacks are 4.44 R160s. They have the newer, *inverted* setup. 2 options. EJ(legacy/imp/forrester) inner CV joints mated to EA82 or 81 Axles(what is this going in???) EA82 is what I would be hoping to use it for. I am assuming that the newer style is a stronger method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 i thought there were some late 90's automatic legacy's with 4.44's...but i'm not sure. the 99 SUS was a 4.44 but that does you no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpycam Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I will share some information about using 4.44 in older models. You can install a LSD and stub axles.It's the same as swapping from 3.70 to 3.90 except you need to drill the carrier to size of 4.44 ring gear bolts. The ring gear bolts are almost to short for the thicker LSD carrier , I researched for new longer bolts but found that none were available. I would think the bolt length would be better with an open diff carrier as they are thinner at the surface mating to ring gear.You will also have to change the pinion flange , the earlier gen's have a smaller bolt pattern. Not too much more work than a normal LSD swap! I built two at the same time and ran them in my hatch, one lived and one exploded! I always suspected the ring gear bolts were too short.Although it may have been that I was in low/low, had chains on all four tires and was pushing snow with the blade when the front diff blew. However the rear diff still lives and has seen lots of abuse , even posi burnouts in rwd when drag racing. Hope this sheds some light on 4.44 gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 I will share some information about using 4.44 in older models. You can install a LSD and stub axles. Axle stubs: are these just a direct swap from the internal to the external axle stub type? Or is there machining that needs to be completed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpycam Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 The internal axle is all one piece with a spring clip that inserts into side gears of diff. The stub axle is seperate from the rest of the axxle assembly and bolts to side gears.I have never tried to swap just the side gears on the newer style to the older for stub axles.This may be possible if diff centers are the same in the area were side gears and spider gears rotate(hope that I explained correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knichol Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 Thanks for the info! So how was your final setup? Did you have 4.44 rear diffs with internal axle stubs and then converted the inner cv axles or did you pull the ring and pinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpycam Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I did a LSD swap (See LSD swap in repair manual) in the 4.44 case wich includes using the stub axles . With the LSD carrier the internal are different from open diff ,only bolt in axle work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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