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EJ22T has spark, still wont start


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43 replies to this topic

#1 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 07:09 PM

SO I went to the junkyard and got a new connector for the crank sensor. Wired it in, and now I have spark. However, the car still doesnt start.

How do I test the injectors? I know im getting fuel from the pump. While checking codes I still get code 11 for the crank sensor. :confused:

-Brian

#2 EVOthis

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 07:23 PM

get a set of noid lights they plug right into the elec. connector to the injector......they are pretty cheap, i picked up a set a while ago for about $12.......the directions usually come with the set.......the noid lights just make sure the elec. part of the injector is being told from the computer to pulse..... they also have specific tools the test the injector itself but you say you are getting fuel so you shouldnt need that........

#3 tcspeer

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 08:05 PM

Noid lights are cheap, and very helpful tool to have and as stated by EVOthis they will tell you you if you have a problem with the pulse from the computer.

get a set of noid lights they plug right into the elec. connector to the injector......they are pretty cheap, i picked up a set a while ago for about $12.......the directions usually come with the set.......the noid lights just make sure the elec. part of the injector is being told from the computer to pulse..... they also have specific tools the test the injector itself but you say you are getting fuel so you shouldnt need that........



#4 Cougar

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 12:58 AM

To see if there is a fuel delivery problem you can spray some starter fluid into the intake. If the engine tries to run then you know.

#5 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 02:48 AM

Tried that and it didnt do anything. But I didnt try much fluid and only tried once.

Im wondering if my timing belt was installed incorrectly if it would throw a code for the crank angle sensor???

I disconnected the cam sensor and left the crank sensor plugged in to see if it would take a signal from the crank, but i did not, and threw a code for the cam sensor immediatly.

#6 OB99W

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 03:45 AM

If you're still getting code 11, it's likely that there's still a fault with the crank signal as the ECU sees it. However, that can be due to a problem with the sensor itself, the reluctors on the crank sprocket, the gap between the sensor and reluctors, the wiring, or even the ECU input.

See pages 10-11 of http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/Fuel.pdf

See page 5 of http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf

A timing light can be used during cranking to determine if the spark occurs at somewhere near the correct moment.

#7 Cougar

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 03:53 AM

The injectors may not be turning on due to the error code from the crank sensor. Make sure the circuit is good between the sensor and the ECU. If that is ok then you will need to replace the sensor. I would hold off on troubleshooting the fuel problem until the error code is solved.

#8 john in KY

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:55 AM

I noticed the Op said something about wondering if the belts where installed wrong. If this new belts were installed and it was a first time for whomever installed them, very easy to use the wrong timing marks. Would explain the no-start problem.

#9 OB99W

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 11:37 AM

I noticed the Op said something about wondering if the belts where installed wrong.[...]

Just in case...

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2SingleOverWin01.pdf
http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/2.2Liter.pdf
http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf

Motor Magazine series; starts with 2.2, then moves on to 2.5:
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/072001_08.pdf
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082001_08.pdf
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/092001_08.pdf
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/102001_08.pdf
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/112001_08.pdf

#10 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 02:00 PM

I used the End Wrench document when installing my timing belts. This is my 1st time for the EJ22 doing t-belts. I followed the document to a T and made sure i used the small nick on the crank and cam sprockets, not the arrows. Also, all 3 marks on the new belt lined up perfectly with the marks.

Im curious if it would throw code 11 if the belts were installed incorrectly?

#11 Cougar

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 02:19 PM

It shouldn't throw a code for that.

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 03:33 PM

Ok day 2 (well, week 3... but anyhow).

I reconnected my INtercooler, made sure everything was plumbed and connected tight. Tried starting the car and get nothing.

I used the Laptop again with VRG's scan tool software. My injector pulse does not change at all with the cranking of the motor. Nor does my IAC valve. Everything else seems to be reacting. Timing drops to 15 degree's and stays there when cranking.

Last night I disconnected my Cam sensor and forced it to throw code 13. So now my ECU is flashing code 11 & 13. After several attempts to clear the ECU (by disconnecting the batt, and sitting on the brake) it still shows code's 11 & 13, even tho I have reconnected the cam sensor.

This makes me think the code 11 its flashing is the same ole code 11 ive been getting before I repaired the crank sensor.

Regardless... still not getting fuel... what am I missing? IM trying to do some searching to figure out what the ecu uses to sense and open each injector... but im drawing a blank.

#13 OB99W

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:25 PM

[...]I used the Laptop again with VRG's scan tool software. My injector pulse does not change at all with the cranking of the motor. Nor does my IAC valve.

What is the scan showing for injector pulse width?


Everything else seems to be reacting. Timing drops to 15 degree's and stays there when cranking.

Have you verified that the reluctors on the crank sprocket are all okay, and that the crank position sensor tip isn't damaged? Otherwise, the ECU could be mis-interpreting the pulses.


Last night I disconnected my Cam sensor and forced it to throw code 13. So now my ECU is flashing code 11 & 13. After several attempts to clear the ECU (by disconnecting the batt, and sitting on the brake) it still shows code's 11 & 13, even tho I have reconnected the cam sensor.

This makes me think the code 11 its flashing is the same ole code 11 ive been getting before I repaired the crank sensor.

Info on pre-OBDII systems, including how to clear codes:
http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/EWPreOBDAug05.pdf
Once they're properly cleared, see if any return.

#14 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 04:32 PM

Since I cannot clear the ECU's memory, im not going to start digging into my motor to check the crank sensor... im not 100% sure its at fault anymore.

And according to those directions, in order to reset the ECU i gotta start the motor...

Pulse width was something like 36ms but did not change when cranking the motor. I cant remember exactly what the value was, i'd have to go back out and try again.

#15 Gloyale

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 05:00 PM

Just to rule it out, did you make sure to place the cam sprockets on the correct side each? The drivers side has tabs for the CAM sensor on the back side of it.

Also, this is originally a Turbo car? using Turbo ECU and harness? If not the CAM and Crank senor wires are switched which each other at the ECU.

Turbo the Cam sensor goes to Pin 1+2(shield pin 3) of the ECU, Crank to 4+5(shield pin 6)

Non-turbo body harness and ECU would be reversed

Just a curiousity, it may not be relevant to you're trouble.

Can you get it to start in D-check(green test connectors) mode?

Have you checked the injectors with a test( or *noid*) light?

#16 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 06:00 PM

Turbo the Cam sensor goes to Pin 1+2(shield pin 3) of the ECU, Crank to 4+5(shield pin 6)

Non-turbo body harness and ECU would be reversed



So the non-turbo and turbo cars have a different pin configuration for the cam and crank sensors???

Cause i had to replace the crank sensor harness plug, and i got one from a non-turbo Legacy. Just wired it up yellow to yellow, black to black, white to white.

My car is originally and still is a turbo.

I removed the motor to do the headgaskets and now after re-installing the motor I cant get it to restart.

-Brian

#17 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 06:38 PM

Looking over my FSM for the 1992 Legacy, both non-turbo and turbo share the same wiring configuration for the Crank and Cam sensors...

unless Im reading something wrong.

#18 Cougar

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:16 PM

If I remember correctly I think it possible to mix up the two sensor connections. Can yours be swapped by chance?

To erase the memory disconnect the battery for at least a half hour. If the code still is in memory then try an hour. It will go away when the battery power has been removed for a long enough time.

#19 OB99W

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 08:41 PM

Since I cannot clear the ECU's memory, im not going to start digging into my motor to check the crank sensor... im not 100% sure its at fault anymore.

And according to those directions, in order to reset the ECU i gotta start the motor...

I'm fairly sure (although not positive) that the memory will clear if you just crank the engine with both (read memory and test mode) connectors coupled.


Pulse width was something like 36ms but did not change when cranking the motor. I cant remember exactly what the value was, i'd have to go back out and try again.

A pulse that wide should be enough to start without problem, if properly timed -- it would normally narrow once the engine starts and is idling, especially when warm. Are you certain the fuel rails are pressurized? If so, then noid lights could be used to verify whether the ECU is switching the injectors.

#20 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:00 PM

I dont nave a noid light. And my meter is at work. I guess i'll have to bring it home and see if I can determine wether or not the injectors are opening.

I left the negative terminal on the battery off for 4 hours, and im still getting the same codes.

And no, you cannot mix the cam and the crank sensor connectors. THey are different colors and different connectors.

#21 Gloyale

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:56 PM

Looking over my FSM for the 1992 Legacy, both non-turbo and turbo share the same wiring configuration for the Crank and Cam sensors...

unless Im reading something wrong.


You are correct, at the engine connections. You're connector swap wouldn't matter.



It's at the ECU the pins are swapped. Wouldn't be an issue unless the car was originally non-turbo, and you are trying to install the turbo ECU, which I don't think is the case.

#22 Cougar

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 12:30 AM

Well it seems to me there is either a problem with both sensors, there is a problem with the ECU, or perhaps the sensors aren't getting voltage to them due to a relay or fuse problem. Have you checked to see if power is getting to the sensors and the IAC valve?

#23 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 11:28 AM

I was reading through the .pdf's on the timing belt install again. And im second guessing my installation.

The guide tells you about the marks on the crank, however it indicates a mark on the backside of the sprocket. I read both PDF's and it didn't clearly indicate which mark on the face of the sprocket to use.

I whipped up this image here to help explain what I did:
Posted Image

I see 2 additional marks on the face of the sprocket. One looks to be an arrow, the other is looks like "ND" or "N?" And the other is just a mark, which looks like it corresponds with a mark on the backside of the sprocket.

I marked the image with "This Mark" showing the mark I used when aligning the lines on my timing belt. Im almost 110% positive I didnt use the Arrow.

Im going to bring my compression tester home with me from work, along with my multimeter to do some further testing but I have a feeling Im going to have to pull the radiator and check the belts.

#24 Gloyale

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 11:54 AM

*this Mark* is the correct one. Hopefully that is the one you used.

#25 Gloyale

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 11:59 AM

oops




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