ChuChi Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 It's time to replace the clutch in the wagon! Probably do the axles too while I'm down there. I've got an EA82 with the DR 5spd. What am I in for? I've searched around here and found a lot of comments about how easy it is, but nothing really explaining what needs to be done. Is there a quick write up somewhere? I've got the service manual (useless) and the Chiltons (Step1: Remove transmission :-\). I'm looking for something a little more practical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Welcome you came to the right place Did you check the chiltons in the trans section for how to remove the tranny? Usually they refer to a section/chapter when they say remove whatever. USMB has a manual on the FOURM page you could check. You'll need a good jack, stands and some wooble extentions for your socket set. Take a look at it. It's pretty easy. The Y-pipe will propbly need to be dropped as it can get in the way. All the elect. connections to the tranny have to be undone. The driveshafts have to be removed from both sides and the back(AWD) of the tranny. The bellhousing bolts need to be removed and the crossmember near the back of the tranny needs to be removed. Also seperating the motor from the tranny can be very difficult you just have to keep trying until you get it. There's things I've propbly missed, others here will take up that slack. If you drop the y-pipe make sure you get gaskets to replace the old ones. If the oil seperator plate on the back of the motor is plastic get a metal one to replace it. Hopefully you won't get back there again soon so change what you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 If you have or can get a hoist, you might consider removing the engine instead, and leave the tranny in the car. It seems easier to me, especially if you are working alone - a lot less time working on your back. It gives you a chance to seal things up on the engine, too. Miles Fox shows you how to do it: http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/engineremoval.htm Check out the "Similar Threads" at the bottom of this page for some ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 It's easier to pull the engine. You can also remove the radiator and pull the engine forward till there is enough room to slip the clutch into the gap. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChi Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Wow, good info. I don't know how I didn't find those threads the first time around. I did check the USMB manual, but didn't find anything promising. Also found the Miles Fox page. But the "Clutch Service" link is broken After taking another look at it, the axles need replacing anyways, so that's a point in 'drop tranny' column. I do have a buddy coming over to help or laugh at my misfortune, depending. Is pulling the engine really easier? I understand the benefit of not having to be on your back all day, but it seems to be alot of smaller connectons to worry about and keep track of. More places to screw it up. I see that you can avoid all of that by just pulling the radiator and sliding the engine forward, but it looks like there's not enough space to get to everything that way. Plus I just did the coolant flush . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 its much easier to pull the engine to do a clutch job. I'm going to guess that you have an SPFI EA82 correct? I just did a clutch, reseal, coolant flush with new hoses, and timing belts with tensioners and idler on mine and I took my time doing it, total of 6 hours from start to finish. Besides, its easier to leave the tranny in the car to do the axles in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 ...the "Clutch Service" link is broken . I saw that, but you won't really need it - if you pull the engine, the clutch is right there in front of you. If you prefer dropping the tranny, that will work, too. If you have a transmission jack or something to help hold it and line it up, it shouldn't be too difficult. Just speaking for myself, I hate wrestling a heavy transmission from beneath a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 It's still easier to pull the engine even if you are doing axles, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Axles don't come out any easier by pulling the tranny. In fact they really should be pulled before you pull the tranny. "pulling" the tranny isn't generally the problem - it's the putting it back in part that's a pain in the neck. You can save the coolant in a clean bucket and reuse it - there's no reason to lose good coolant if you do it right. And yes - there is enough room to do the entire clutch if you pull the engine forward with the radiator removed. It's a man-handling job for sure - but it beats every other method if you haven't got a hoist. If you have a hoist, then it's a slam dunk - clutch is a two hour job at the most. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 With the engine slid forward from the tranny, there is enough wiggle-room in the tranny mounts to allow you to drop one axle off the tranny at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I agree with everyone who said to pull the motor. It is defenitly easier. Don't be intimidated by the hoses and wires. Most of the hoses are formed and only fit one way. Some are different id's so they don't fit in the wrong place. Even the wires get "formed" from the being in one spot for a long time subjected to heat. I've taken a wire harness dropped on the engine and found most of the connections fell near where they belonged. Suggestion: Take pics before you start, take notes and draw sketches. Put bolts,nuts and screws back where they came from so you don't have to guess later where they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChi Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Alright, engine pull it is. Hopefully I can secure a hoist before this weekend. If I go with the "slide forward" method, rather than the "pull it out" method (that sounds dirty...) what can I avoid detaching? Or does it all need to come off anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Alright, engine pull it is. Hopefully I can secure a hoist before this weekend. If I go with the "slide forward" method, rather than the "pull it out" method (that sounds dirty...) what can I avoid detaching? Or does it all need to come off anyways? Pretty much all of it has to be detached - that's not really the point of the slide forward method - it's more for those folks that don't have access to hoists or cranes. I did it a couple times before I was better equipped, and I have done it at the junk yard when I needed flywheel's or used clutch parts GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 If you have a 4x4 long enough to stretch across the engine bay and a couple feet extra on each side, a chain, and a friend - you can pull the engine that way. It's only 160 lbs or so with everything attached to it. Bare long block is like 110 or so. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChi Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Just popping back in here for a quick update. We got the clutch replaced Saturday night (and Sunday morning). One of the side goals was to track down the massive oil leak(s). I also wanted to replace the axles, but they didn't arrive in time. I'll do that in a week or two. We started at ~4:00 Sat afternoon. We had little issues with getting the radiator out without buggering it and the lower transmission bolts, but at about 8:00 we were here: Can you see the oil leak? It's a doozy.... How about here? Yes, that's the valve cover gasket hanging down :eek: We also noticed some oil in the bell housing: At this point, we slipped the engine back into the bay for safe keeping and made a parts/pizza run. Also stopped by a friends house to pick up an engine stand to help with the valve cover gaskets. We find the only open parts store in town and get a rear main seal, valve cover gaskets, and some fluids just in case. We get back ~10:00 and open the valve cover gasket box to find this: I assume those are EA81 gaskets? The box says "1.8l (except Turbo) 1980-89". That'll learn me to open the box before walking out the door. I said said screw it. I can get real gaskets from the dealer this week and put em in with the engine back in the car. We also had a hell of a time with the flywheel bolts. Without being sure if it was the rear main or the oil separator cover that was leaking, we decided to the leave that leak alone for now. Plan is to rebuild this within the year so I can get it then. The valve cover is the major leak. Anyway, we moved on to the clutch. Fly wheel: Old and shiny vs. new and grabby: New vs. Old pressure plate: Everything installed and ready to go back in: The parts store also screwed up on the alignment tool. Luckily, it still fit in the pilot bearing and the was too small for the clutch. So we just wrapped it in a glove before shoving it in. Worked like a charm :cool: Took about another 4 hours to drop it back in and hook everything back up. Once we did, it wouldn't start :banghead: Everything pointed to a dead/dying battery. Weird since there was nothing wrong with the battery when we started, but everything was fine with a jump, so whatever. Went to bed ~sunup and vowed to fix it after some rest. Turned out to be corrosion on the cable terminals! Stupid problem and even more stupid that it took hours to figure it out. I blame it on lack of sleep. So yay for me! Thanks to all of you for the help and advice. I'll be hanging around here for some time. Now, for the unrelated questions that came up while going though this. I'll start a new thread if any of these warrant a separate discussion. 1) There was ALOT of oil in the air box. PCV is the obvious first stop, but the filter was fairly clean. Any other suggestions to track that down? 2) I found an exhaust leak. It's coming from the pipe that's in the foreground of the valve cover gasket pictures. It loops around the valve cover and mates with the block right by the main exhaust. I need a name for this pipe so I can go get a gasket for it too :-\ 3) The inside of the exhaust (both sides) looked like this. Is the white bad or normal? I've only seen that color on spark plugs before and that was very bad. 4) FYI, here's why I'm axle shopping. That's the second 'quick boot' I've put on it. It's on the third now. Still no clicking or shaking even though I rally-x'ed in a similar condition last summer. I'm expecting it to explode without notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Just to share in the fun, I'm changing my clutch as well... Plus changing out the water pump (started leaking), oil seals, and head gaskets. My Tranny had the leak near to the drive shaft also. Gonna check at napa and see if they have a tranny seal. My rear seal was also obviously leaking as there was lots wet oil at the seal and lots of asbestos/oil mixture at the bottom of the bell housing. Did you take a micrometer to the thickness of the clutch plate ? That's my next quest of curiosity..... Now to deal with removing all the anti afterburn stuff that GD recently wrote an article on... Steve. (Ho yes, one question based on my naivity of clutches, are the springs on the clutch disc there to take up some of the shock of torque upon engaging????) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDead Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Awesome thread. When my RX's clutch goes, I'll add pics of my project here. That way more EA series engines covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChi Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Did you take a micrometer to the thickness of the clutch plate ? That's my next quest of curiosity..... Nope, but I saved the disk and presure plate for wall hangings so can do that next time I'm out there. I can say it was way worn down. With the old one I had the cable adjusted all the way to the end still only had engagement at the very top of the petal stroke. New clutch + readjustment of the cable and I get full modulation now. Of course the glazing could have been part of my problem as well. Now to deal with removing all the anti afterburn stuff that GD recently wrote an article on... Anti-afterburn? I missed that one. Where is this article? (Ho yes, one question based on my naivity of clutches, are the springs on the clutch disc there to take up some of the shock of torque upon engaging????) That's my understanding. It allows a bit of play between the shaft and the disc when shocked to smooth shifts out a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Anti-afterburn? I missed that one. Where is this article? That's what those crazy exhaust tubes you asked about are for. It introduces air into the exhaust stream supposedly to prevent backfiring. It's convoluted, and doesn't really do much, even if it still works. The gaskets for thoe tubes are hard if not impossible to find, except from a dealer. IIRC they are crazy expensive from them. A thin bead of copper RTV or other high temp gasket maker, along with the old gasket if it's still intact is the most efficient option. Or remove the whole system. Swap on an EGR valve from an SPFI, tap and plug the holes in the exhaust ports, and ditch everything connected to those tubes. GD did do a write up about it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 GD's thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=86141 P.S. - Can someone sell me an EGR Valve from an SPFI? Or is it different on an EA81? Starting to get a little off the clutch track, but here is a picture with the flywheel/bellhousing (and intake manifold for my job!) removed. You can tell why the seal would leak if old - there woud be a lot of oil splish-splash around those Crank/Cam gears... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (Ho yes, one question based on my naivity of clutches, are the springs on the clutch disc there to take up some of the shock of torque upon engaging????) Yes. It helps provide a smooth engagement, and is easier to drive. A solid disc is physically stronger and should be considered if the clutch sees a lot of abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Wow, good info. I don't know how I didn't find those threads the first time around. I did check the USMB manual, but didn't find anything promising. Also found the Miles Fox page. But the "Clutch Service" link is broken . the link is supposed to go here: http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/clutch.htm although i still need to make a write up for it. can i use your pics on this page? i never seem to have a camera any time i have cars apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChi Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 the link is supposed to go here:http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/subaru/service/clutch.htm although i still need to make a write up for it. can i use your pics on this page? i never seem to have a camera any time i have cars apart. You can absolutely use my pictures. If I'd known you needed pictures, I'd have taken more at each stage rather than just after all the shiny bits are in. I do have a few more pictures too, but I think I picked the best for the post. I'll PM you the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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