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Wheels / brakes block after stop on a hill Subaru 1990


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9 replies to this topic

#1 stavan

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 12:48 PM

I got this problem recently and don’t know what to do. The dealership mechanic says everything is OK, but it is NOT and is dangerous. My car - Subaru Legacy 1990 LS FWD Sport 2.2 Standard S/W
First time my breaks blocked was when I stopped at an intersection (street light) on a little slope back with 3 passengers in the car. I use the hill holder (it is a nice feature) and it was working well for the last 2 years. Now when I tried to start going at green light my car was blocked. I pushed the gas and managed to move out of the intersection somehow and stopped. The wheels were hot. I left the car for and hour and then everything was fine and running as usual. It happened again a week later. Then I went to the dealership / mechanic they checked the hill holder and concluded that there is no reason for this to happen and offered me to switch off the hill holder but I preferred to have it.
It happened last night again. I noticed that now only front left hand wheel and rare right hand wheel were hot.

I appreciate any suggestions.
Should I change the brake cylinders or the liquid or something else.
Thanks
Stan

#2 Turbone

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:12 PM

Something is wrong with the hill holder mechanism and/or the cable might be sticking upon release. Altho it wouldnt hurt to have the brakes bled and the rest of the brake system checked out, I think the problem is with the hill holder.

#3 nipper

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:58 PM

The hill holder only works on the left front brake. You have another problem going on. I dont remeber if there are check valves in the master cylinder or your proportioning vlave is having issues.

When was the last time you had the brake fluid changed. You can be boiling the brake fluid and it will lock up the brakes sometimes.

Has anyone checked your calipers to make sure one isnt seized?

I don't think this is a hill holder issue, you have something else going on. The hill holder is an on/off thing, either it releases or it doesnt, and it being on the front wheel, you would notice a pull to the left. You do have a diagnol breaking system.

Another easy check is just to disconnect the hill holder cable and see if it goes away.

nipper

#4 stavan

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:32 PM

Thank you Turbone, nipper,
it helps, to narrow the problem.
that is right the hill holder works on front wheels.
brake fluid was changed when I changed the callipers (I hope but I am not sure) 1 year ago with second hand ones bought on Subaru forum.
I thought I may check the cable - the car is old and there might be rust dirt to prevent move of cable...
- proportioning valve is having issues. Obviously I have to check it.

The thing is if I do NOT use hill holder I don’t have problems. When I use the hill holder the brakes remain blocked (don’t go back to normal).

Yes it is probably not a hill holder problem. I am trying to figure out what it could be beside the hill holder – something doesn’t go back to normal.

For now we have 3 possible causes
1. brake fluid – to change with new one
2. proportioning valve
3. cable for the hill holder is not moving freely – to oil

is that correct
thanks
stan

#5 nipper

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 07:46 PM

I would suspect the cable. The HH itself is very simple. Its a large marble that pushes against a valve. This valve holds the pressure from the master cylinder untill the clutch is released. Once it is released, it releases the brake pressure.

Believe it or not, I got this from a studabaker site

http://www.mypersona..._HillHolder.htm

nipper

#6 nipper

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 07:47 PM

PS I am wrong, It works on one front and one rear brake. (could have sworn i read in a FSM its only the front).


nipper

#7 stavan

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 10:22 PM

I would suspect the cable. The HH itself is very simple. Its a large marble that pushes against a valve. This valve holds the pressure from the master cylinder untill the clutch is released. Once it is released, it releases the brake pressure.

Believe it or not, I got this from a studabaker site

http://www.mypersona..._HillHolder.htm

nipper


nipper,
thanks a lot. The link and article are wonderful. I've never seen such brilliant explanation on the Hill holder and how it works.
Thank You
:banana:

#8 nipper

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 10:26 PM

Your welcome. The studabaker Avanti had a hill holder way before FHI thought about making cars :)

May even be the same design, considering how the japanese auto industry loved to reverse engineer sometimes.

nipper

#9 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:13 AM

In theory, the hill-holder should release after you have barely let out the clutch, and before the clutch starts to grab.

Find a hill you can sit on safely, engage the hill-holder, then slowly let out just the clutch so you can see where the HH disengages, and where you start to roll backwards.

It sounds to me like it needs to be adjusted, since it appears that it's holding the HH much too long.

If the clutch starts to grab, and yet it's still holding the HH, I'd say the cable needs to be adjusted :)

-Dave

#10 nipper

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:35 AM

In theory, the hill-holder should release after you have barely let out the clutch, and before the clutch starts to grab.

Find a hill you can sit on safely, engage the hill-holder, then slowly let out just the clutch so you can see where the HH disengages, and where you start to roll backwards.

It sounds to me like it needs to be adjusted, since it appears that it's holding the HH much too long.

If the clutch starts to grab, and yet it's still holding the HH, I'd say the cable needs to be adjusted :)

-Dave


Which leads to the question, has the clutch cable been adjusted lately. The hill holder should be adjusted too.

nipper




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