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5 lug facts..a picture book (56k..go play)


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28 replies to this topic

#1 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:40 PM

So there have been many questions concerning what fits what so I've begged my sister to borrow her digital camera so I can take these pictures:

Tie rod ends from left to right; Impreza/legacy late model, legacy/impreza early model, L-series(ea82), and finally ea81:
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Same, sideways:
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ea81 rod end installed in legacy steering knuckle/hub:
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L-series rod end held in legacy knuckle:
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legacy rod end in legacy knuckle:
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Impreza rod end in legacy knuckle:
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ea81 rod end in L-series knuckle:
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ea81 rod end in l-series knuckle up close:
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Rusty L-series rod end in brand new L-series knuckle:
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Same up close:
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legacy/Impreza/XT6 ball joint next to L-series ball joint:
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Same, side by side:
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legacy and L-series knuckled ball joint hole:
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L-series ball joint is too small to 'satisfy' Legacy knuckle (every subaru enthusiast must prove his/her commitment in blood):
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This is just wrong lol...:
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Legacy and L-series knuckles like ebony and ivory side by side with balljoints..harmony:
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Legacy balljoint in L-series Conrol Arm:
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L-series ball-joint in the correct location:
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What's that thing in the legacy knuckle?:
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hmmm:
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page 1...

#2 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:41 PM

page 2:

hmm again:
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what IS Kaz up to?:
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more:
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More ball joint goodness:
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hmm the third:
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PoorManz Solution?:
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XT6 rear hub in Legacy H6 rear brake disc:
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upside down you turn me..:
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Legacy front hub/knuckle next to XT6 rear hub:
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and for fun wrx disc on legacy hub:
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WRX rotor next to L-series rotor:
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L-series rotor doing inappropriate things to WRX rotor:
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Phew..

Ok the ball joint sleeve aka PoorManz solution:
It is a 1.5" diameter exhaust pipe aprox. 1.5mm thick or 16awg I cut a slit allong the pipes normal seam weld and then notched it for the ball joint pinch bolt. If your ball joint pinch bolt is torqued correctly this is a good solution that weakens nothing in the design of the respective assemblies. I have another bit in the assembly that goes inside the pinch bolt groove that prevents the ea ball joint from sliding out of the sleeve..

This is just an idea I'm throwing out to the community I will say that the best solution is to find some XT6 lower arms, but I do like my solution better than reaming the ea lower arm even though I think there is plenty of meat to do just that in the tapered boss welded to the ea control arm..

Rod end selection:
As yall can see from the pics the only tierod end that will allow full factory geometry and alignment capability when using legacy knuckles in an ea 5 bolt conversion is the ea81 tierod..While one could simply run a tap on the ea tierod and use the early legacy/xt6 (same part No btw) rod end I feel the combination of factory parts to be a better solution. Late model impreza/legacy rod ends are the same length as early gen legacy/impreza but the straight rod end can only be used with a late model steering rack (which won't work in an ea crossmember without modification) as I'm told they have less steering angle so there is no need to make room for the wheel at extreme steering angles.

Use of standard L-series rod end in legacy knuckle:

While it is physically possible to bolt an L-series rod end in a legacy knuckle I don't think it is wise for the following reasons:
1: It alters front suspension geometry by moving the rod end balljoint closer to the knuckle this alters how the car toes while steering with the suspension under compression or expansion, ideally the subaru steering setup isn't exactly the perfect setup so why make it worse? You'll notice whiteline's new gen roll center adjustment kits actually put MORE space between the rod end and the knuckle to try to correct any change in toe while the suspension is under compression/expansion.
2: it squeezes the rod end grease boot more than normal..ok maybe not a big deal
3: It might make the rod end harder to release from the knuckle as more of it is inside the taper than normal



comments?

Kaz

#3 Numbchux

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 12:46 AM

freakin awesome!


so, I've been getting away with using the L-series rod ends in my Legacy knuckles (they do 'press' in....removed one side for wheel bearing work, and had to pound it out...), but I need to get my hands on some EA81 ones ASAP.


also, I love the sleeve for the ball joint. does the bolt still lock the joint in there?

#4 kiwi subbie

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 05:22 AM

very intressting

#5 subyrally

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:13 AM

hmmm, interesting indeed.:cool:

#6 woundedbrat

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:30 AM

Wow side by side comparisson this needs to be in the usrm. One question though are all the tie rod ends the same thread ?

#7 Gravityman

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 11:24 AM

Next compare the EA82, ER27, EJ22 Axles with the opposite hubs

#8 screwbaru2

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 12:24 PM

Very nice job poor man. Both the presentation and the solution. Don't give sis her camara back!:grin:

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 02:43 PM

freakin awesome!

also, I love the sleeve for the ball joint. does the bolt still lock the joint in there?



That is a really good question.

I could see the bolt locking the sleeve but letting the joint slip out. Although actually slipping ALL the way out is very unlikely without some duke of hazrd style action.

But shifting around isn't good:-\ . IDK, seems like it would probably be fine.

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 03:34 PM

f'n amazing! this answers a lot of questions i have been contemplating with using legacy knuckles in the RX

#11 kingbobdole

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 10:24 PM

What are you doing there with the H6 stuff on the XT-6 rear? I'm having a hell of a time getting XT-6 rear rotors and I actually have the H6 rear set-up... anything swap over there?

#12 carfreak85

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:23 AM

Can we substitute the EA82 ball joint and sleeve for an EA81 ball joint? Planning this mod on an EA81.

#13 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 08:53 AM

Can we substitute the EA82 ball joint and sleeve for an EA81 ball joint? Planning this mod on an EA81.


I seem to recall ea81 and ea82 balljoints as being the same..but don't take my word on that..
my big issue with this (ea81) conversion is axles..but I'm working on that..the aussies have allot of info on this as well..
Kaz

#14 Subarutex

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:16 PM

More info on the ball joint sleeve please!

How'd you make it, etc....

#15 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:15 PM

More info on the ball joint sleeve please!

How'd you make it, etc....

Hey Tex
I've edited the text in my original post with a brief description on its fabrication I'll post more info including dimensions as soon as I can,

Kaz

#16 Subarutex

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:16 AM

Thanks!

#17 s'ko

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 09:54 AM

my big issue with this (ea81) conversion is axles..but I'm working on that..the aussies have allot of info on this as well..
Kaz


Yep. problem is the EA81 control arms are too short. The only stock option that will work with the EA81 tranny is the FWD impreza axles. But you would have to extend the control arms.

Regular XT6 axles might work in conjunction with the 5 spd swap and using EA82 control arms. The EA81 engine crossmember is a bit narrower than the EA82

So custom axles or extended control arms.
(any modifications are the responsibility of the modifier)

#18 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 01:01 PM

my idea is to install fwd legacy/impreza outer cv joints on ea81 shafts..all u need to do is get some new gck fwd legacy outboard joints hammer and or cut off the ea81 outboard joint from the splines and install the legacy outboard joint on the ea81 axle shaft..from my understanding ea81 and fwd manual legacy have 22 spline axle shafts, I've confirmed this on the inboard side just need to get an ea81 axle for final build and outboard spline count..

#19 carfreak85

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 10:25 PM

Any news regarding axles and EA81 chassis?

#20 Numbchux

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 01:23 AM

^ custom yo



just thought I'd mention I switched from EA82 to EA81 rod ends a few weeks ago. the EA82 ones were pressed into the knuckle, but further in than they were supposed to, which caused extremely premature failure (not actually breaking, but they were sloppy....and only ~8 months old). the EA81s fit perfectly in the knuckles, and leave a LOT of room for toe-in. I'm almost concerned about there being enough threads in there. But I think it'll be fine.....

#21 the_postie

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 10:32 PM

A great resource of info here well done poorman.
This is what is used for the conversion kits sold in Aus regarding axles.
MY use 22 spline MY shafts with Liberty outer CV.MY= ea81.

#22 NoahDL88

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:28 PM

1988 EA-82 wagon,
5mt D/R 1.59 low (standard GL 4wd)
Impreza front suspension and XT-6 lower control arms
FWD impreza axles

The axles were unhappy with the standard XT-6 control arms. I had them extended around 1 inch, but i don't think that was the best length for them, the wheels still have a pronounced positive(?) camber, the tops are out. In the next couple of weeks i'll see if i can't get under it and figure out what the best course of action is to sort out my problem. I believe the radius rods could use some attention as well. On acceleration it pulls left, and on hard breaking it pulls right, talk about a fun time.

#23 renob123

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:47 AM

Cool, I think. What years are considered early-model Legacies? I take it that if I have one of those, and I have a Gen 2 Brat, then I can have a 5-lug setup on a Brat.

I guess I'll need to see them side-by-side before I can ask an intelligent question, so this will have to do for now.

Jacob

#24 Turbone

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 09:52 AM

Hey Kaz, can you re-host the pics?
I've been re-directing people here and they need pics.

#25 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 12:16 PM

will do...pity the new server didn't keep the photos..
Kaz




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