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FIXED!! Trany delayed forward engagement


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#276 Gloyale

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:08 AM

if you have the skills and they have the money, by all means fix it.

i have neither, so for me, this is a no brainer.

from a purely economic perspective, $30 worth of ATF & trans-X once a year vs. a $1200 - $2500 rebuild .....

Well, for some realistic math......

 

ATF cost 5.50 a quart for anything worth putting in a 4EAT.  4EAT holds almost 10 quarts.....a flush ussually requires 8.  So that's $44.  Plus the trans-x itself is almost $10.  Even at $6 that makes each flush  $50 bucks.  Not to mention the $30 spin on filter.  So that's $80 a pop......to not even fix it just make it temporarily better (not much better in this case)

 

On the other hand........ if the issue is just the input shaft
o-ring......it can be replaced simply by removeiong the trans, removing TC to access input shaft, and
installing a new ring, and reinstalling.  No "rebuild" needed just a few
externally accesible seals.  I charge about $350 for R+R of an auto
trans.  O-ring cost is about a dollar.  So that's $351 dollars.  3 or 4
years of trans flushes will get to that cost pretty quick.

 

Besides, just telling them to live with it and flush and fill and add additives every year doesn't work in the real world of people actually wanting there car fixed.  I'll be setting myself up for a bad reputation and possibly a small claims suit if I try to just "trans-x" it again.  And for the record, once a year is way to often to have to be flushing your auto trans....there is a problem and it needs to be actually fixed.

 

Is putting the sealeant slime in a 2.5 "fixing" the headgasket?  No, of course not....it's delaying the date of the actual repair, or in some cases the demise of the car.  Eitehr way it's kicking the can to someone else and cashing out.......NOT the way I do business.

 

Now, As I said, I've already used it in this same car, and at best the Trans-x made the problem a little less severe.  Never made it go away EVER. These customers are NOT car people.....and the violent slam into drive is very scary to them and they do not trust the car......If I don't fix they will sell it, and likely not buy another subaru.....so it's in my best interest, and Subaru's too, to actually fix the issue permanently.

 

Now espescially since we have the trans open for an unrelated Diff/pinion bearing issue, we want to address this problem and actually FIX it. 

 

Like I said I'll just PM Ivan because he actually sees the value in "FIXING" a problem.


Edited by Gloyale, 07 June 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#277 CNY_Dave

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:44 AM

I'd lay money he'd say if the trans-x makes it work, then that's perfectly acceptable.

 

Obviously it doesn't work in all cases, but when it does, there's nothing 'cheap' 'shoddy' or 'improper' about using it, and that's what's causing the pushback you are seeing- you are essentially calling everyone who has had success with it a 'cheap hack' for 'not fixing it right'.



#278 ivans imports

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

so there is a buch of shuttling valves on valve body that sit right under the wearing componets on trans bitts get into the valves and make them stick have had a few now one a tiny piece of clutch materail got into valve and jamed it in bore we cleaned it but was still sticky had to use 1000 grit emery paper to clean bore then was fine. I think your fix in a can probly helps to unstick theese sticking valves



#279 Gloyale

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:06 AM

I'd lay money he'd say if the trans-x makes it work, then that's perfectly acceptable.

 

Obviously it doesn't work in all cases, but when it does, there's nothing 'cheap' 'shoddy' or 'improper' about using it, and that's what's causing the pushback you are seeing- you are essentially calling everyone who has had success with it a 'cheap hack' for 'not fixing it right'.

 

I never called anyone a "cheap hack". 

 

And by all means if Trans-x will make the issue go away for a while then use it.  Obviously I see value to it, I tried it on this car TWICE. 

 

Geez.....I thought people would be more interested in actually identifying what in the trans causes this shifting issue.....then being mad at me for not worshiping a bottled additive as the "END ALL" fix.



#280 Rooster2

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

I never called anyone a "cheap hack". 

 

And by all means if Trans-x will make the issue go away for a while then use it.  Obviously I see value to it, I tried it on this car TWICE. 

 

Geez.....I thought people would be more interested in actually identifying what in the trans causes this shifting issue.....then being mad at me for not worshiping a bottled additive as the "END ALL" fix.

No need for any name calling here. Please everyone just calm down. It is simply two approaches to fixing a tranny. One is DIY, the other is having a shop work on it. Let it be at that.



#281 davedave

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:32 AM

Rooster2,

  Thanks for starting this great thread!  I have the forward engagement problem on my 1999 Subaru Forester L.  It takes about 1-2 seconds to move forward after moving the shifter into Drive (sometimes accompanied with a little thump when it engages).  So, I am going to try the Trans-X.  My questions are:

 

(1) Am I supposed to add 1 quart (32 oz) or just the amount that comes in the smaller bottle (15 oz)?

 

(2) My Forester has 98,000 miles on it.  The transmission fluid has never been changed (no need for other posters to tell me it should have been changed every 30K miles or so).  So, should I just add the Trans-X and see how that goes or should I actually drain out and replace the ATF fluid as well?



#282 Rooster2

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:37 AM

Rooster2,

  Thanks for starting this great thread!  I have the forward engagement problem on my 1999 Subaru Forester L.  It takes about 1-2 seconds to move forward after moving the shifter into Drive (sometimes accompanied with a little thump when it engages).  So, I am going to try the Trans-X.  My questions are:

 

(1) Am I supposed to add 1 quart (32 oz) or just the amount that comes in the smaller bottle (15 oz)?

 

(2) My Forester has 98,000 miles on it.  The transmission fluid has never been changed (no need for other posters to tell me it should have been changed every 30K miles or so).  So, should I just add the Trans-X and see how that goes or should I actually drain out and replace the ATF fluid as well?

My recomendation............drain and refill your tranny 3 times with at least 5 minute of driving time between changes. (Each drain is about 1 gallon + one pint of ATF.) This is recommended because only about half the tranny fluid will drain out each time. The remaining fluid stays in the torque converter, and won't drain out. Some people say to get a power flush, but I don't recommend doing this, as it could damage some internals of the AT. On the last tranny fluid change, add 15 oz of Trans-X to the tranny. Be aware that the AT dip stick is calibrated low to full at one pint, not quart like the oil dip stick, so it is very easy to over fill the tranny, which is not good. Check fluid level with engine running, and engine fully warmed up, tranny in Park selector position. New ATF and Trans-X gets added into the AT dip stick tube near the firewall.

 

Your AT may have a spin on filter. This filter was introduced in 99, but it is possible that you have an early 99, that does not have it. It looks exactly like an oil filter, but the filter media inside the filter is different from an oil filter. The AT filter is available at an auto parts store, and of course at a Subie dealership.

 

I have done the Trans-X treatment on several Subies, and every time, Trans-X corrects the problem within 5 minutes of driving with the product added. This still simply amazes me that the product can fix the delayed forward engagement problem so quickly.

 

On my OBW, the Trans-X fix lasts about 1 year of driving, or roughly 10K-15K miles driven, before the shift laziness starts to return. Then, I do a single drain of ATF, and add another 15 oz can of Trans-X, and drive on for another year. On the second year, I do two drains, because I want to drain out more of the original Trans-X out of the system. I am in my fourth year of doing this, and my tranny is shifting great.

 

Let us know how well Trans-X works out for you.

I use Walmart brand ATF, which works just fine.



#283 Gloyale

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:05 PM

No need for any name calling here. Please everyone just calm down. It is simply two approaches to fixing a tranny. One is DIY, the other is having a shop work on it. Let it be at that.

 

Putting an additive in is not "fixing" the tranny.  It's hardly even DIY.  It's pouring in a bottle and hoping it works.  This entire thread is anecdotal, with a few reports of it "working" ( but obviously not that well if you have to add it every year :rolleyes: )......and that's just testimony from one person.

 

My personal experience has been different.  Others here have had differing results........

 

So Rooster......It's great this worked for you.  But you're being almost resitant to identifying the underlying root cause and I don't understand why?  I woudl think you would want to know?  Instead, you seem to be insistant that people buy this product and use it and that is the best solution.  Are you sure they aren't paying you already???

 

I am not saying nobody should ever use it.  I am just trying to actually identify an issue and not just say "wooohoo!  the snake oil worked.....for a year......or not at all." and be satisfied with that. 

 

I have driven many 4eats that shift great, no delays......so I know that there is something WRONG inside the trans when they don't run right.......I want to know what that problem is and FIX IT!!!  Would you want your car fixed?  Or would you want it to be better, but then bad again next year.  Any logical person would say an actual fix is better in the long run.

 

I cannot believe I am getting argument over this.  I should just figure it out myself and not share with anyone.....since nobody seems to care about solving it.

 

With that said, I love you guys, and I care insanely too much about peoples experience with their Subies.  So I I will not post in this thread again until I have reinstalled the trans I pulled with this problem....and can report on whether the replacement input shaft o-ring, and cleaning of the shuttles have "fixed" the problem.



#284 davedave

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks for the answer.  Yes, my 99 Forester does have a spin on filter.  So, I guess you're suggesting to change that as well. 

 

What's the best way to ensure not overfilling?  Should I try to measure the amount that comes out when I drain it, or do I just add some (3 qts maybe?), see how full it is when warm, and if low, add a little more, and check again until I get to the right spot on the dipstick?



#285 davedave

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:37 PM

Gloyale - in regard to your post about wanting to know the real CAUSE of the tranny problem, I'd love to know that, but I'm guessing a transmission shop is going to tell me to replace the transmission (thousands of dollars), or do some kind of repair (which I am guessing will cost me at least $500, and most likely more). 

 

So, while I'd love to know the cause, going with a cheap solution is certainly worthwhile, especially for those of us that have older cars.  If I knew I could get it fixed for $351 (like in your example), then sure, I'd do that instead. But I am guessing that getting out of a transmission shop for $350 with a real fix is very unlikely.



#286 presslab

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

The Trans-X adds more friction modifiers too, and these break down.  My guess is that's why it needs replacement over time, and that the delayed engagement this product fixes is a friction problem and not necessarily a seal problem.

 

I don't think the seal swell agents break down, and I don't think they work fast enough in 5 minutes to swell the leaking seals.  It could be that the viscosity of the Trans-x slows the fluid from leaking past the seals, but it doesn't seem like it could change the viscosity that much because of the ratio.

 

However I think delayed engagement could be caused by a number of things and that there's no "silver bullet" that will fix all trannys with this problem.

 

 

Another friction modifier is the Lubegard black.  I've heard people put this in to firm up their shifts.



#287 Rooster2

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:16 PM

The Trans-X adds more friction modifiers too, and these break down.  My guess is that's why it needs replacement over time, and that the delayed engagement this product fixes is a friction problem and not necessarily a seal problem.

 

I don't think the seal swell agents break down, and I don't think they work fast enough in 5 minutes to swell the leaking seals.  It could be that the viscosity of the Trans-x slows the fluid from leaking past the seals, but it doesn't seem like it could change the viscosity that much because of the ratio.

 

However I think delayed engagement could be caused by a number of things and that there's no "silver bullet" that will fix all trannys with this problem.

 

 

Another friction modifier is the Lubegard black.  I've heard people put this in to firm up their shifts.

Perhaps Trans-X does work as a friction modifier, as you suggest. The product has a very low viscosity, that pours quickly like pouring gasoline. As a result, It does make the tranny shift a little bit firmer. I agree that the product's ability to correct the problem within 5 minutes of driving is not due to swelling leaky seals. It would take a lot longer to get seals to swell. Whatever ingredient in Trans-X must degrade over time, and so has to be replaced to again be effective.



#288 Rooster2

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks for the answer.  Yes, my 99 Forester does have a spin on filter.  So, I guess you're suggesting to change that as well. 

 

What's the best way to ensure not overfilling?  Should I try to measure the amount that comes out when I drain it, or do I just add some (3 qts maybe?), see how full it is when warm, and if low, add a little more, and check again until I get to the right spot on the dipstick?

Yes, I figured your AT would have the spin on filter. My guess is that it is the original that came with the car, so it needs to be changed. I think you will  find it to be be on very tight, and difficult to remove. Suggest if super tight to remove using two oil filter wrenches.........one type with the metal band that slips over and down on the filter, the other type which is the "cap type," that fits over only the end of the filter. Pulling on two filter handles doubles your power to "break loose" a stubborn filter.

 

How I fill the tranny, I drain the tranny into an empty oil catch pan. Then I pour the old AT from the catch pan into a 5 quart empty oil jug. The empty jug is marked on the side of the jug as to how much AT has been emptied into the jug. On that basis, I can pretty much tell how much fresh ATF to add to the tranny. The tranny dip stick is very hard to read upon pouring in new ATF and Trans-X. Since the ATF was added by pouring it into the dip stick tube, some of the new ATF wants to slowly drip down the tube sides to run onto the wiped off dip stick to give an uncertain fill level reading. So, I check the ATF level two or three days later, when their is no longer ATF drip down from the sides of the tube.

 

I hope this info helps ................Rooster2



#289 johnceggleston

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:21 PM

 I am just trying to actually
identify an issue and not just say "wooohoo!  the snake oil
worked.....for a year......or not at all." and be satisfied with that.

gloyale,

 

i understand,

i know you know subarus.

 

but rather than joining this thread and saying the title is wrong,

why not start a new one and ask if anyone has a procedure for replacing the failing seals in the trans.

 

no offense intended, but you jumped into this thread about a temp and recurring fix for a trans issue and announced we were wrong.

imho, that is the incorrect approach.

 

if the info in this thread is not what you are looking for, then start another one .

 

no one says you have to use this fix for your customer's car.

 

i would be delighted to learn that the PERMANENT fix is only 15? hours and a 3$ part.

 

but for all the folks who buy a 99 - 00 auto trans subaru that develops a ''slow to engage''  problem, the trans-X is a very good alternative to an expensive fix.

 

.


Edited by johnceggleston, 08 June 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#290 Gloyale

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

gloyale,

 

i understand,

i know you know subarus.

 

but rather than joining this thread and saying the title is wrong,

why not start a new one and ask if anyone has a procedure for replacing the failing seals in the trans.

 

no offense intended, but you jumped into this thread about a temp and recurring fix for a trans issue and announced we were wrong.

imho, that is the incorrect approach.

 

if the info in this thread is not what you are looking for, then start another one .

 

no one says you have to use this fix for your customer's car.

 

i would be delighted to learn that the PERMANENT fix is only 15? hours and a 3$ part.

 

but for all the folks who buy a 99 - 00 auto trans subaru that develops a ''slow to engage''  problem, the trans-X is a very good alternative to an expensive fix.

 

.

I am breaking my earlier promise not to post here again in order to agree with John.

 

I really wasnt' trying to rain on anyones parade.  Damn static inflection of text.

 

Anyhow.....I think my next post on this subject WILL be in another thread.  Rooster, and any others sorry to offend or suggest ya'll are "cheap hacks" lol.   I can toatally see the value of the remedy in a bottle sometimes, for some cars and owners.

 

Like I said, these customers are not gonna go for trans-x again.....so I need to identify the real issue....that's all.



#291 davedave

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:31 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks again for the info.  I assume I should get an OEM Transmission filter for my 1999 Forester.  Is there any place to buy them other than a dealership to get a true OEM version?  I looked around on the Internet, but only found non-OEM.



#292 Rooster2

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks again for the info.  I assume I should get an OEM Transmission filter for my 1999 Forester.  Is there any place to buy them other than a dealership to get a true OEM version?  I looked around on the Internet, but only found non-OEM.

It is not necessary to buy an OEM filter. A good after market filter works just fine.

 

I may have bought mine at Advance Auto Parts, but could have been from elsewhere. Advance auto has a couple for sale for $13-$14. Their house cheapie is the $13 model. That filter is Chinese manufactured, so quality could be questionable. The other is a Fram, which doesn't have a great reputation. Autozone parts store sells a filter on line, their Duralast product for $22. Prolly best to buy the Duralast. It is better still if you can find a Purolator or Wix branded AT filter. They are both good quality.



#293 davedave

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks again.  Now - a few dumb questions.

 

(1) When you put in the Trans-X, do you put it in before or after the regular transmission fluid, or does it not matter since it all gets mixed together?

 

(2) You suggested chaning the fluid 3 times (with some drive time in between).  Do you replace the filter on the first of the 3 fluid changes, or on the last flulid change?

 

(3) Since it sounds like the filter is going to be a pain to remove, did you find in the past that changing the filter is a must for fixing the problem.  Could I do the fluid changes first, and get to the filter sometime later (like a month later), or do I really need to do the filter change now.



#294 Rooster2

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:03 PM

Rooster2,

  Thanks again.  Now - a few dumb questions.

 

(1) When you put in the Trans-X, do you put it in before or after the regular transmission fluid, or does it not matter since it all gets mixed together?

 

(2) You suggested chaning the fluid 3 times (with some drive time in between).  Do you replace the filter on the first of the 3 fluid changes, or on the last flulid change?

 

(3) Since it sounds like the filter is going to be a pain to remove, did you find in the past that changing the filter is a must for fixing the problem.  Could I do the fluid changes first, and get to the filter sometime later (like a month later), or do I really need to do the filter change now.

DaveDave,

I sent you a PM to answer your specific questions. Logging onto this forum should show you that there is a private message for you from me. Drop me a reply to tell me that you were able to read the PM.

Regards,        Rooster2



#295 guyc

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:19 AM

Hi guys

 

Long time ago, I wrote that this could be my last message (see below). But - again - I need some good advice.

 

Because my wife is pregnant of our 3rd child and we couldn't fit our 3 (rather big) booster seats in the back of our 2002 Legacy Wagon, we bought a 2009 Outback Lineartronic (built in Japan, not in the US). Now, after driving it for some 3 weeks, you never now what is happening: DELAYED FORWARD ENGAGEMENT    :angry: :angry: :angry:    ! So I thought this problem was only with 4EAT, not CVT!

 

I can't find anything on the internet on a delayed forward engagement with Lineartronics, so I wanted to ask you if you could direct me to more information on this problem. The car has 130.000 km and it's only when starting the car the first time of the day. There is no shock involved, but I have to rev the car to 3.000 or more rpm before it starts moving.

 

I know that American Outbacks are made by SoA and not in Japan, but could someone please help me out to clearly diagnose what is the problem? Because I bought the car in Italy (1.100 km from here... we know it was a risk) at a local Subaru dealer, it's not easy to go and see the dealer to get his advice! I want to be informed first, because there is warranty!

 

Thanks and greetings

 

Guy, Belgium

 

Hello guys

This probably will be one of my last messages in this thread. Last week on Wednesday, I saw a legacy like ours but 2 years younger and which had only 120.000 km (instead of 240.000 km). It was for sale at a dealer at 5 minutes' from my house. And it was a manual transmission.

What a coincidence: the next day, the AT of our car failed again! So I started thinking: Rooster2's comment on my previous posting, all the time I spent on the car, all the problematic driving situations we have had and the fact that the error occurred under warranty. Suddenly I realised that I lost my faith in this car. After some days of deliberation and phoning to my dealer and the vendor, my wife and I decided to sell our legacy with AT back to dealer and to buy the legacy with the manual transmission!

Financially, everybody lost: the dealer and, we didn't do any bargain. But at least now our problem is solved. We again have a reliable car and I can spend more time on building our strawbale house, so that my wife can give birth to our second child in a nice home! After all, it is only a car (even if it is a subaru) and life goes on. Now we will install LPG in it and than: no more car problems for several months!!!

I wish to thank everyone of you who helped by giving feedback, advice or concrete help. I hope your problems will be solved too, just like ours, one way or another.

Greetings from Belgium in the spring

Guy



#296 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:21 PM

About Delay in CVT Trans' Subarus, See:

 

~► http://forums.nasioc...01&postcount=11

 

~► http://www.subaruxvf...d-upshifts.html

 

Kind Regards.



#297 Rooster2

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 01:05 PM

I started this topic 6 years ago, and want to report back that Trans-X still fixes the delayed forward engagement problem. Over the years, I realize that Trans-X will fix the problem for about 12-18 months, then the lazy forward shifting returns. Today, I drained the tranny and added the additive, and Trans-X has my tranny shifting forward immediately with no hesitation once again.



#298 CNY_Dave

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:35 PM

Sometimes you can buy magic in a bottle!



#299 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:56 PM

I Cured Completely, similar symptoms on my Wife's car, which is Automatic, by pouring a full can of Seafoam's "Trans-Tune" on the old ATF and driving one hundred miles with it, prior to drain it and pour fresh ATF back... also I add half pint of Lucas ATF additive, for smoother shifting.

 

You must be aware how the different kinds of additives, affect the Differential in the long run, on those Transaxles that shares the ATF as Lubricant for the differential. Worth read this small writeup:

 

~► http://www.ultimates...e-differential/

 

Kind Regards.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 22 September 2014 - 07:33 PM.


#300 SOBER0014

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:35 AM

just bought my daughter a 2011 subaru outback wagon w/ 90k miles.  great car!  clean and all is good excetp.... it unfortunately, has the delayed shift into reverse and drive; moreso in drive.  the first day of owning the car i had the transmission serviced and it did NOT help.  just spoke with my personal mechanic, who i trust, who will be working on the car anyway to stop the exhaust rattling sound that makes the car sound like a piece of sh*t.  i told him about this forum and the trans x mix formula and he is going to drain and replace what was just put in there 3 weeks ago.  i sure hope i am one of those that can do the oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh  it's fixedddddddddddddddddd shout!  lol

 

will update once that service is completed next week and every now and then going forward






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