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TD04 Turbos and EA82T's .


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36 replies to this topic

#1 discopotato03

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 05:29 PM

Hi all , I've been searching here and everywhere for peoples experience with this type of conversion .

Here at USMB every one's been using the WRX's TD04 13T-6 and the result seems to be good though a small tad laggy .
I think Caboobaroo built an engine from an NA SPFI EA82 and used turbo heads and possibly reground cams . People generally try to do something about the hopeless EA82T header because the up pipe seems to be ridiculously small and that turbo side "T" piece a pathetic piece of "engineering" . One of you mentioned that you were going to use separate pipes from the heads to just short of the turbo mount flange and I think this holds the most promise for performance and reasonable spool from a TD04/EA82T type conversion . Did the twin pipes to the turbo actually go ahead and did it fit around the engine and cross member with decent sized pipe ?

Also people are saying that they used WRX style DP which would hopefully have a better less restrictive cat than the original EA82T's DP .

I've been trying to find out if any of the single turbo Subaru's used a TD04 a little smaller than the Rex one but so far I've only found the Forester GT's TF035 and they are just too small .

Any updates and info much appreciated , cheers A .

#2 Caboobaroo

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 06:03 PM

Thats correct, I did do an EA82T build with the SPFI shortblock but since it was running 12 pounds of boost and 9.5:1 compression ratio, bad things happened to the pistons and it didn't last too long. I also did another EA82T build with the stock EA82T shortblock but had the oilpump give out of it.

For the TD04, the stock header could be made bigger for it but the stock one I had with mine worked pretty good. I figure it helps with getting the TD04 to boost a little sooner as well. Also, I was running a 3" bellmouth downpipe on mine and I got it to fit without any modifications.

If I was to build another EA82T again, this is what I figure.
EA82T shortblock
EA82T gen 3 heads, full port and polish
Spider intake with Nissan 280ZX turbo injectors and AFPR
A mild 260 cam
TD04, full port and polish with 3" turbo back exhaust
oil cooler
STi top mount intercooler
some sort of fuel management system like MegaSquirt or similar

I had most of this in my old RX but of course I didn't have the fuel management system nor an oil cooler so I blew up a couple engines. It can be done but will take quite a bit of patience to get it right.

#3 subyrally

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 07:09 PM

thats what i am planning on doing with my next ea82t build, granted, i think i am going to go a bit more agressive with the cams. i was running a td04 on my rx with nissan injectors, msd ignition, spyder intake, fmic kit for an 04 sti, custom intake, custom headers, an a full 3"turbo back exhaust with a 4" bell mouth dp. im sure there were other upgrades, but i cant remember. i do remember that it was fun as hell and faster than my impreza up to 65ish.... the only issues i had were when i had a custom spyder manifold set up using hte xt6 throttle body, it would stall at low rpm but pulled hard at top end. the other issue i had was with cooling, but i tracked that to the intake manifold. think it was either leaking somewhere or blocked.

#4 discopotato03

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 09:08 PM

Thanks fellas , as mentioned here somewhere my EA82T build consists of an 87 Voxtex AWD XT4 Spider turbo engine that had been rebuilt at some stage before I got it (engine + gbox) so really good internally . They even decked the cases to get the pistons proud - works out to 8.6 static CR .
Piston crowns and exhaust valve are being ceramic coated . I was sent a set of 1st gen heads which were somehow not cracked so they were ported as well . Oil pump in great condition . Will get the hone rings gaskets water pump as per usual rebuild .

Cams is a big question for us , I have no idea what I can get away with in an 8.6 CR turbo EA82 . I was considering using late MPFI EA82 cams since the header/turbo/cat will be less restrictive than std . Ok do you think or just run the turbo vortex std cams ?

IC will eventually be the WAIC type and yes I will run an oil cooler probably off a Toyota Corolla 4AGE powered car .

Do you people reckon the Rex TD04 is no too big for a roadie ?

Cheers Adrian .

These std headers look really bad in the pics here , even worse than I thought .
I er like Corky's and a few others ideas with turbo manifolds , I think to a degree reasonably big pipes work well because the exhaust pulses need the least path of resistance to get the least exhaust gas velocity loss . Its hard with Siamese port flat 4's because the header pipes are supporting half the engines capacity ie 900cc's per pipe .
So to my way of thinking the poor up pipe has to pass all the gas the engine puts out so if its undersized (smaller than the crossover pipe) the pressure rise just before the up pipe must be ridiculous . We want to do a lot better than that so the unmolested pulsing actually gets to the turbo and is not dampened or assisting the EGR function to the same degree .
With a bit more than flatulence at the turbo flange it may get a smallish TD04 off its butt .

#5 Caboobaroo

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:58 AM

for a decent street car, the TD04 is awesome (I'm willing to bet Turbone will chime in soon). Larger then stock but doesn't have much more lag then stock, flows better and gives you more volume. Just watch how much boost you run:dead:

Cams are kind of the same thing. If you're planning on driving it everyday, then the 260 cams will be good since the 272 cams are pretty monsterous for an everyday beast. I'd use those more on a car going to the track then on a daily driver.

#6 discopotato03

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:09 AM

Caboobaroo do you think it was the lean running that damaged your engine or was it a hot intake air detonation thing ?

I am getting interested in water/methanol injection because its supposed to have cooling and fueling advantages which may suit an EA82T with factory ECU and an interceptor .

Cheers A .

#7 Caboobaroo

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:18 PM

Well I was running a narrow band air/fuel gauge in my car (not much of a tuning device but it gave me an idea) and it never went lean, always stayed in the stoich/rich area but it never went real rich. I'm going to go more to the hot intake air since I was running an intercooler but I hadn't put in a scoop yet, nor did it have a fan of any sort. Plus I think the radiator that was in the car at the time wasn't flowing as well as I thought so over heating was probably another issue as well.

#8 Turbone

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 12:52 AM

TD04 is perfect for the EA82T. It can safely be boosted up to 12psi.
BUT, you better have a fresh build on the engine if you go that high.
Mild cams are ok, altho in my case using stock cams and as a daily, my mileage is just now starting to get better. I get about 270mi per tank, compared to 230 not long ago. Dont ask me why, I dont know :rolleyes:
If I had the money I would port and polish a spyder intake and do the same to the turbo. Ceramic coat piston crowns, etc.
I'm running a WRX DP to 2.5in exhaust and it seems to breath fine. I need to get my narrow band A/F gauge working so I know whats going on. My last engine failure was due to pre detonation from over boost (bad ebay mbc). I also think my knock control unit is on the fritz. I am unable to pass our emissions test at idle. The thing runs rich all the time. Which is fine by me. But a dyno test will verify everything I've done so far.
On my last dyno run, all I had done was the exhaust, air filer(K&N), MSD coil, stock turbo and boost. It was putting out 100AWHP, which isnt to bad.
I've been contemplating a oil cooler, but my entire cooling system is new and it runs cooler than normal. Also have a WRX IC installed. If you are going to run higher boost and romp on it often, than meth inj might be a good idea. Its getting real popular here on Rex's and STI's.
Any upgrades I do now will be to get Nissan injectors, a fuel regulator and a higher flow fuel pump.

#9 zukiru

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 11:37 PM

Rob.. I know you know what you are doing so don't take this wrong.
but a narrow band is just for fun... wideband will let you know what's going on.
I wouldn't trust a narrowband any further than I could throw your RX.

#10 Turbone

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:24 AM

Rob.. I know you know what you are doing so don't take this wrong.
but a narrow band is just for fun... wideband will let you know what's going on.
I wouldn't trust a narrowband any further than I could throw your RX.


Your right about that. But finding one and paying for it are a different story.
I'm bumping this up because I'm about to install the spider intake. And of course, I've encountered a problem with the wiring.
It seems that my 89.5 RX has different plugs. One is the same, but it the pinouts are different. Meaning the wires dont match the plugs when hooked up. And the other plug is completely different. The XT plug is flat and mine is round. I'm thinking of cutting the one of my old intake and using it on the spider wiring, that way I can keep the RX wiring stock (in case I need to go back).
I could sure use your input Russ. How can I bribe you to come over on your day off? :-p
Or has anyone else encountered theis on their swaps?
I was doing some research and now remember that I need to get the pitch stopper and throttle cable from the XT also. Which isnt a problem, I know where its at :rolleyes:

#11 Caboobaroo

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:37 PM

Well you know that my day off was today until next Sunday so I might be able to come down and help depending on stuff coming up next month (like my sister's wedding, somehow I'm part of helping the planning:rolleyes: ) but here's what I did on mine.

I used the stock XT intake harness but mine was from a NA motor, so it didn't have the knock sensor in it. I removed the knock sensor from the old harness along with the plastic portion of the plug I needed, then I basically wired it all back up. Whats weird though is I can't for the life of me remember what I did about the TPS though.... time to get out the FSM I guess:rolleyes:

#12 subyrally

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:28 AM

as far as the 4wire tps, the xt harness has the proper plug for it and i think the rx and gl-10 ecu will see it, i never had an issues with mine when i swapped it over, even had the same plug for the harness as the stock rx manifold harness.

#13 Turbone

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 10:28 PM

My 89.5 must be a different animal then :-\
The TPS had 2 plugs. The main had 2 wires and the other had 3.
But this is what I did.......
I swapped harness's. I removed the XT-T harness and installed the RX harness. I had to change the knock sensor plug, the IAC plug, of course the TPS plug. I have one wire left over on the TPS. I have to look at my FSM, but it doesnt cover the 89.5, only 88.
I also have no EGR on my engine, so I have to block of the plate on the intake.
Oh, and another thing. The waterheater for the TB. The XT-T gets it from the tube off the heater hose from the WP. I didnt get that and I am NOT pulling the intake off to replace it right now. Its summer and I wont need it (I hope).
So in all, the harness swap was pretty quick, took me about a hour to remove both and install the other. And its all in the back, unseen. But OMG, the hoses were a PITA to route. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow when theres more light. I had to relocate the IAC. There was no way to get hoses to it, as it was under the intake and in front of the turbo.

I have less than 2in between the turbo outlet and the AAC on the TB.
This looked like it was going to be a major problem, but I have some hoses from a Daytona with nylon webbing and its flexible(thnx Qman). If theres a problem with air flow, I will have to see about clocking it some.

UPS dropped off my LUK clutch today, so I need to prep my flywheel and do a few odds and ends on the intake then its all going back in.
Then I get to tackle the rear wheel bearing :rolleyes:

#14 grossgary

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 10:53 PM

that's what i would have done (and have done) rob, just swap the harness over, makes things easier and simpler in the long run.

you got it figured out but for anyone else having issues, maybe this might be helpful.

i have had mild success doing some minor "rewiring" by pulling the pin outs out of the connectors and reinstalling what i needed. it's an easy way to "rewire", add or change things if needed.

for instance...take a knock sensor connector and wiring and put it into a plug by finding the right pin out and pushing it through and actually "installing" the metal pin into the engine harness plug. make sense? the back of the plugs are a soft pliable rubber so you can actually remove and install pins from the back of them as needed. at least on the few i've dealt with it wasn't a problem.

#15 Turbone

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 12:41 AM

Yeah Gary, thats exactly what I did. I used a little jewelers screwdriver to stick down alongside the pins, then pulled hard. They came out with no problem. So the few plugs I needed to swap are basically original (XT).
But I was dreading having to re-pin the main connectors like a few have done.
20+ wires per plug:-\
I think I've fought more with the PCV stuff than the wiring, lol.

Now heres something I just thought of concerning my turbo piping.
You know what happens with a water hose when you pinch it? The velocity becomes greater. I dont think the actual pressure changes, just the speed it comes out. Now with the hose that I have coming off the turbo, its got a pinch in it. Maybe around 30%. I'm wondering if this will restrict the flow, increasing the velocity.
Or will it do the oppisite?

#16 Turbone

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 10:29 PM

Well, my TD04/WRX IC/Spider swap is running. Altho its not idling well. Due to a vacuum leak, which I believe its coming from my block vent hose. And its buried :-\
So in the next few days, or weeks, I'll try and get to it.
Once its up to about 2500rpms, its fine.

Now on to the next project.......rear wheel bearing :(

#17 discopotato03

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:05 AM

Hi Turbone , I have a Turbo XT engine rebuilt with higher CR (8.6) and am about to go down the spider and WAIC road .
My manifold is a little different in that its had an adapter plate the same as an L MPFI TB welded to it (referenced around the top 2 holes) so I can run a 3 plug TB/TPS on this manifold . Don't ask , I don't want to run the spider TB .

I would very much like to see how you mounted your IC if it's the WAIC type .

Cheers A .

#18 Turbone

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:53 AM

My IC piping from the TD04 has been a nightmare.
Because its pointing directly at the TB I have less than 2in between the turbo and TB. Not easy getting a hose to fit in there. I'm seriously contemplating clocking the turbo up more to have added clearance. But then I need to re-route the top coolant line and some other stuff in the way.
Its always something.
I'll get some pics tomorrow and post them.

#19 subyrally

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:51 PM

thats why i had to make mine a rotated turbo set up.


My IC piping from the TD04 has been a nightmare.
Because its pointing directly at the TB I have less than 2in between the turbo and TB. Not easy getting a hose to fit in there. I'm seriously contemplating clocking the turbo up more to have added clearance. But then I need to re-route the top coolant line and some other stuff in the way.
Its always something.
I'll get some pics tomorrow and post them.



#20 Turbone

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:54 PM

thats why i had to make mine a rotated turbo set up.


Rotated by how much?
Got any pics?

N/M, found some pics.
Looks like you rotated the whole turbo/DP/Up-pipe. Right?

#21 subyrally

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 12:17 PM

i know you already found it, but for those who havent seen it.

Posted Image


its only rotated a little bit, but it was also raised a bit and tilted back as well. there was a little less clearance between the tps and the turbo outlet pipe until i had the exhaust manifold rebuilt, but yeah, with the repositioning of the turbo, everything worked out rather well.

Rotated by how much?

Got any pics?

N/M, found some pics.
Looks like you rotated the whole turbo/DP/Up-pipe. Right?



#22 Subarutex

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 11:58 PM

Rotate the throttle body.

Man, this seems like such old news!

Here's some pics of how I did mine.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Basically what you are looking at there is a rotated throttle body, and a samco y-pipe for a WRX, cut with a pipe in the middle for added length. Ultimate got the same Y-pipe treatment too.

I never was 100% sure my TPS worked correctly, or if my problem was all in the cams.

I also found on ebay a RUBBER (not fancy silicone) elbow that worked for the turbo to MAF intake. I believe it was made by APEXi for custom cold air intake setups. I believe it was like 60mm or something like that. It was a good tight radius.

#23 Turbone

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 01:27 AM

Thanks for the pics, Tex. When Russ was over today, this is exactly what he told me you did. He said when he was doing his setup, he picked your brain for help :-p
Is that the stock or XT throttle cable?
And did you get the Samco Y-pipe on Ebay?

#24 joostvdw

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:28 AM

Never would've thought that the throttle cable linkage would clear the hood :-\ You think this would work on a XT as well?

#25 Subarutex

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 02:46 PM

Throttle cable was the stock one, with the end cut off and an EMPI throttle cable kit thing on the end. The stock RX one is too long.

It cleared the hood just fine. Not sure if it would on a XT. I'm sure after closing it several times everything would work itself out :lol:

Y-pipe was a used item I picked up off NASIOC. But you should be able to find them on ebay all over the place. Samco, OBX, Prodrive... whichever one you fancy!




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