24 replies to this topic

[cookie1]

Are there any benifits from using one? More power, beter mpg, ect. Could it possibly be worse for the car? The car is a 92 loyale 4x4 (ea-82)
I searched but didnt find anything.

Thanks

[Durania]

The paper filters do the best job of filtering junk from going into your engine. I personally have had terrible experience with the oiled non-disposable ones with the oil they are coating in collecting on my MAF.

[woundedbrat]

lots of benefits slight power increase better throttle response.K&N's are reusable, you simply wash reoil and put back on suppose to get better with age.

[bheinen74]

speaking firsthand, on subarus the oil that they put on the K&N filters will for sure get deposits of the oil on the MAF sensor, causing poor driveability when it gets to that point. be advised.

[mountaingoatgruff]

you'll get lots of comments about the troubles caused by the oil getting all over the maf. i have a k&n on my spfi'ed ea81 hatch and though it hasn't been there long i have had no troubles. i plan on cleaning the maf regularly to avoid any issues, seems simple enough to me.

i can't comment on power/mpg increase - did too much else at the same time.

[GeneralDisorder]

The oil can cause insulation of the sensor wire and failure due to overheating from the hot-wire in the MAF. Cleaning them is not the issue - the issue is the deposits causeing undo strain on the electronics.

There's no reason at all to use them. Paper filters better, and the surface area of the stock element is larger than it needs to be for the EA82.

It's all gimick - just like PTFE additives, headgasket in a bottle and all the rest of the junk sold to those with no sense of scepticism.

GD

[Andy FitzGibbon]

What General said. Unless the stock filter is restrictive, there's no benefit to a high-flow filter. The stock Subaru filters aren't restrictive, in my experience. I've driven around with no filter at all in the airbox, and the power difference was marginal at best.
Andy

[Turbone]

I have a K&N in my RX. I have gained at least 100hp from it and have had no problems with my MAF in the 15K its been on.




50% of what I just said is true

[The Beast I Drive]

I guess the oil deposit poblem would be for those with the hot wire MAF sensor, not particualarly with the flapper style unit.

[Turbone]

Mine has a hot wire MAF.
Its all in how you prep the filter.
Dont have to drown the thing in solution and dont do frequent cleanings.

[Frank B]

Stick with paper, just change it out at regular intervals.
I've had three on three different vehicles, and one on my motorcycle, and that cotton gauze shrinks over time. You'll find that the filter element doesn't fit very well after a while. I think it's just beacuse of the heat in the engine bay and moisture in the air. That whole gimick of it lasting 50,000 miles or more before you have to clean it is crap too. It all depends on where your car is operating. If it's dusty, of course you will have to clean it sooner. If you put too much oil in it, you restrict air flow, I had a hard time jetting my bike because of that. If your thinking about the cost savings over time, you need to consider the cost of the cleaning kit too. The down time that you have to let the filter dry after you clean it, usually overnight which isn't bad really. If you want it for better filtration, consider a better paper element first.

[edrach]

So after all this, other than OEM, anyone have suggestions for better air filters. I'm considering changing back to paper after wiping out one MAF.

[SubPar]

Wish I had read this thread bfore I bought my K&N.:-\

Hmmm, but wait a minute, 2000 and up 2.5 engines have MAPs, not MAFs.
Excuse my ignorance, but is a MAP susceptible to the same oil/crud deposits a MAF is?

Some interesting info:
http://www.warpthree.com/info.html

[MTSuby]

I've had good luck with them in Toyotas...or at least no problems. I figure it could be a gimmick, but if I spend $45 on an air filter then never buy another one again and never throw out another one again, it's worth it, as long as it doesn't hurt anything, which apparently it could.........

My non-opinion

[jacobs]

Stick with paper, just change it out at regular intervals.
I've had three on three different vehicles, and one on my motorcycle, and that cotton gauze shrinks over time. You'll find that the filter element doesn't fit very well after a while. I think it's just beacuse of the heat in the engine bay and moisture in the air. That whole gimick of it lasting 50,000 miles or more before you have to clean it is crap too. It all depends on where your car is operating. If it's dusty, of course you will have to clean it sooner. If you put too much oil in it, you restrict air flow, I had a hard time jetting my bike because of that. If your thinking about the cost savings over time, you need to consider the cost of the cleaning kit too. The down time that you have to let the filter dry after you clean it, usually overnight which isn't bad really. If you want it for better filtration, consider a better paper element first.

I agree. K&N doesn't sell their filters to over the road trucks. The trucking companies know what works best.....paper filters. They have too much money invested in their engines to use second class filters. They were the first to get rid of oil bath air filters when pleated paper filters were introduced. When in doubt about a product, if it can be used on large equipment, see what they are using. They are the first to jump on the bandwagon if it's good.

[mountaingoatgruff]

I agree. K&N doesn't sell their filters to over the road trucks. The trucking companies know what works best.....paper filters. They have too much money invested in their engines to use second class filters. They were the first to get rid of oil bath air filters when pleated paper filters were introduced. When in doubt about a product, if it can be used on large equipment, see what they are using. They are the first to jump on the bandwagon if it's good.

aww, you mean k&n style filters aren't the bandwagon choice? gosh, now i have to redo my engine bay again...

btw, more and more truckers are beginning to use hho boosters... you know what that means, folks!

[Durania]

I've had good luck with them in Toyotas...or at least no problems. I figure it could be a gimmick, but if I spend $45 on an air filter then never buy another one again and never throw out another one again, it's worth it, as long as it doesn't hurt anything, which apparently it could.........

My non-opinion

Non-disposable air filters is what ruined the MAF unit in my Tacoma. P0171 FTL.

[MTSuby]

Huh. I guess I had it in for around 40,000 miles in my '86. Could have done a little damage but I didn't notice it. Good to know.

[4WDFrenzy]

Best drop-in filter I have found was a Forza sport filter. It claims to flow 10% more air than the standard paper filter. I have it in my '95 Legacy GT(twin turbo) and it works great. I have kinda given up on K&N. Don't get me wrong, they make great filters, but after trying this Forza filter, I am not going back.

Patrick

[mountaingoatgruff]

Its all in how you prep the filter.
Dont have to drown the thing in solution and dont do frequent cleanings.

that's the ticket - they don't print those instructions for nuthin, folks.

as far as how long they last, my brother had a k&n fipk (cold air intake kit) on his 98 ram's 360 for 7years before he finally decided to get a new filter for it just cuz he didn't like how the clamp had dug into the rubber on the neck.

also, my dad has had a drop-in style k&n in his 96 toyota corolla commuter for 3years with no problems yet - and i doubt he's cleaned & recharged it more than a few times in that period. also, he just put one on his new-to-him 94 ford f350's 7.2 turbo diesel.

you guys can gripe about k&n's all you want, almost every vehicle (from little 1.5 hondas to 4 different subarus to cummins/int'l diesels) between my 2 brothers, my father and i has had a k&n and none of us have ever had problems in years of running them. the proof is in the pudding, right?

[carfreak85]

My flapper door MAF'ed turbo wagon has been running a K&N for over 30k miles with no problem and has a 1,000,000 mile warrenty. Can't beat that for $50.

As for oil getting on the hot-wire MAF and killing it, give me a F'ing break.

The ECU is designed to send a burst of voltage to the MAF on start-up AND shut-down to burn off any residue there may be on the sensor. If you REALLY slather your filter up, maybe there will be too much oil to burn off, but lets be realistic. A K&N is going to help your car, not hurt it.

[EvilDead]

Mine has a hot wire MAF.
Its all in how you prep the filter.
Dont have to drown the thing in solution and dont do frequent cleanings.

Plus one what he said.

I've had my K&N "typhoon" intake on my WRX for some 15K miles as well. It's all in the prep IMHO of the filter itself.

I shall also be installing one on the RX.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

The EA82 airbox and paper filter are not a restrictive design, so the power gain aspect that K&N advertises isn't really there in the case of the EA82. Take your paper filter out and drive around the block with no filter in, and you'll see how minimal the difference is.
This is totally separate from the reuseable aspect of the K&N, of course, as well as problems with oil getting on the MAF.
Andy

[Zebisko]

From what I have been taught, paper filters better than cotton gauze. No real personal experiences in reliability, however, except for the fact that the drop-in filters have never added any noticeable increase in performance over stock.

[Cold Chuck]

Folks, I'll tell you this... I have been watching this go back and forth. Here is my 2 cents...

Save your money. I own '04 Dodge with HO Cummins. I run with AFE air intake and I check inside of the air intake with white tissue cloth - clean -not even gray. I used to run K&N filter and guess what - DUSTED!! Never again. A buddy of mine has same truck as mine and his engine had high blowby and had to be overhauled early - 200,000 miles on the clock when it should last twice that easy.

So, I will not recommend K&N not even for lawnmotors.