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Crank pulley outer ring loose, broken belt results


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20 replies to this topic

#1 tjxtreme

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:13 PM

99 2.5 145k

I have read all I can find on this topic, and it seems as though I may be lucky that it was only the outer ring that came loose (as far as I can tell). I noticed it wobbling a tiny bit the other day, and didn't think much of it given my high mileage. And then.... SLAP. The belt broke, car stalled and I coasted into the shoulder. While cleaning out the strips of belt, I noticed that the outer crank pulley ring was completely loose, and fell into my hand when I touched it. Got lucky there, I guess.

My question is this, while it is waiting for the shop to open on Monday:
Why wont the car start? It won't turn over, just a gentle tapping noise. I thought you could drive it with a broken belt, and now I'm fearing the worst: damaged engine, timing belt, crushed valves....etc...

Can the mechanic re-use the outer ring and just replace the rubber part?
If I'm 10k away from the timing belt replacement (1st owner had it done early), should I buck up and get this done while he's at it?

Thanks
Andrew

#2 nipper

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:48 PM

Man this does not sound good.

An accessory belt failing will light up the dash board like a christmass tree, but wont stall the car (unless you were not paying attention).

What WILL stall the car is a failed timing belt, tension, or idler. You may have a very hideous problem here, hidden by the timing belt covers. A subaru engine will run without the accessory drive belts, it wont run if there is timing belt failure (or related componenet).

Which leads to the next question, when was the last time the belt was changed.

nipper

#3 tjxtreme

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:51 PM

at 60k, by the first owner... I was going to get it done soon anyway (I'm at 145k), but too late.

uh oh, I can't afford this now...

please help!!

#4 nipper

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:56 PM

it was supposed to be done at every 60K. I don't know what help I cam provide right now, but it sounds like you snapped the timing belt. Do not crank the engine to try to start it, as you may may hurt things.

Good luck.

nipper

#5 tjxtreme

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:01 PM

I thought the 2.5 L was changed at 100k, and the 2.2 at 60k, no?

#6 nipper

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:05 PM

I thought the 2.5 L was changed at 100k, and the 2.2 at 60k, no?


AH my mistake, its a 2.5.

i sort of wished it was a 2.2.

I bet a timing belt component failed. its actually 106,000 miles or 106 months. The idlers dont like going to the second belt change.


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#7 tjxtreme

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:09 PM

Ok then, should I still fear the worst, or is a failed component any better?

#8 nipper

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 02:12 PM

Ok then, should I still fear the worst, or is a failed component any better?


Fear the worst, hope for the best.

good luck.

nipper

#9 keltik

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:24 PM

I realise this is so simple - but i still have to ask.

Is the battery well charged? Good contacts?

If your belt failed it could be you were running on battery power for longer than you thought. As we all know a flat battery will give a clicking and no-go.

Ive seen a few crank pulleys (harmonic balancers) come apart now and none of them did any damage other than the snapped belts.

Edit: Adding to this theory - is it possible your battery was on its last legs? Could it be the extra load on the alternator is what finished your crank pulley off?

#10 nipper

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 04:44 PM

Edit: Adding to this theory - is it possible your battery was on its last legs? Could it be the extra load on the alternator is what finished your crank pulley off?


That would be a new one on me, but anything is possible.

Like i said, hope for the best.

Does the car crank? (do not go out and crank it to find out without checking the voltage first).

if no voltage, it may be what he said, if full voltage, wait for the mechanic.

nipper

#11 keltik

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:32 PM

The main reason i mention extra load finishing off the pulley is that the 2 ive seen come apart both happened at night in the cold. Heater, big stereo and main beam headlights all being used. Could be a coincidence but still something to ponder

#12 hankosolder2

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:32 PM

Same thing just happened to my dad's car. The 2-piece pulley /harmonic balancer split, it shredded the acc'y belts. The accessory drive belt system and the timing belt are almost completely unrelated. I suppose that if the INNER part of the harmonic balancer/pulley came off the crank and the T-belt sprocket behind it worked forward, it could skip time and lunch the engine. But if just the outer part separated, you're probably fine.
My money's on a flat battery due to the belt slipping & shredding.

Here's a pic of what happened to my dad's car:http://www.flickr.co...N04/2465296883/

Nathan

#13 msmithmmx

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 12:30 PM

I had the same thing happen to me but I was able to start it up. The shop charged me 500.00 to replace the harmonic balancer. If your car is not starting my gues is your battery is gone. How many times did you to try to start or how long did it run after the belt snapped. It could have been sliiping well before it snapped off thus not charging the battery

#14 tjxtreme

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 12:33 PM

That makes me feel a bit better... but still fearing the worst.

I suppose it could be the battery; it is 3+ yrs old, and I was running headlights, stereo, cigarette accessory, and defroster....

... but the mechanic is looking at it right now.

I feel like a loved one is in the hospital waiting for diagnosis.

#15 tjxtreme

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 12:41 PM

I didn't try to start it, but the tow guy tried to back it up onto the flatbed... I was a bit shaken up by the incident and wasn't really thinking that the timing belt could have broken too. Dang hitch is bolted to the tow points...

It stalled within a few seconds, but the loosened pulley had slid off at least an inch, and looks like it rubbed the timing cover for a while after it slid the pulley. I could have cruised on the straightaway for a bit not noticing the weakened steering or brakes.

I'll keep you posted on what they find.

#16 tjxtreme

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:09 PM

Ok here's what happened:
1. crank pulley outer ring comes loose
2. shreds drive belt
3. shredded belt wraps around pulleys, finds its way inside timing case
4. chunks of belt wedge under timing belt and cause it to skip, rotating timing by 45 degrees
5. stupid interference engine interferes with itself
6. I'm broke and stranded

i know it depends on the degree of damage, but when does fixing an engine become more expensive than replacing one?

I wasn't worried about the loose pulley, because I thought the drive belt couldn't mess up the timing, and that I'd just lose accessories....

... but take note!

#17 davebugs

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:54 PM

You have a PM from last night - unless it didn't go through.

I usually just replace the engine. I have a 97 2.5 w/109k that was running when removed. Had a wierd sound in the low end so I removed it. But the price would be right. If I were you I'd probably just get a 2.2 and put in it.

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#18 nipper

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:17 PM

I wasn't worried about the loose pulley, because I thought the drive belt couldn't mess up the timing, and that I'd just lose accessories....

... but take note!


in this case its not the engines fault.


good luck. The only way to tell whats going on is to throw a timing belt on it and do a compression teste and pray.

nipper

#19 grossgary

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 12:15 AM

there's still a chance the engine is good so you hate to just throw it away and incur a huge expense needlessly. but then again you probably don't want to pay for what nipper said to toss a new belt on and do a compression test if the engine is bad.

a leak down test wouldn't cost much of anything and doesn't require the timing belt to be in place.

there's no way for us to say given we don't know all the details of what transpired and we can't see, touch, hear, or work with the engine.

i'd be leary of a used EJ25 (unless the price is real good like DB said). don't pay top dollar for a junk yard EJ25 - they are head gasket prone and not worth $1,000+ (not including labor). you'd hate to be out $2,000+ only to find you need $1,500 headgasket by years end (seen it happen, happens on here too).

good luck.

#20 edrach

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 08:45 AM

I had the same thing happen to me but I was able to start it up. The shop charged me 500.00 to replace the harmonic balancer.

Yikes, that sounds like an awful lot of money. I don't remember the price of a new HB and I don't think there's more than an hour's labor involved in replacing it unless the woodruff key/channel was damaged also.

#21 hohieu

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 04:56 PM

Sorrry to hear about your troubles.




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