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91 Legacy Wagon Auto Tranny ???


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14 replies to this topic

#1 damone

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 05:17 PM

I have a 91' w/ 183K-mi and need a new tranny (so the local tranny guy says). I got what sounds liek torque bind. Put fuse in FWD holder and still have problem (what size fuse should I use).

There is a couple in the local junkyard, but not sure what years are OK.

Main question is seems that might as well get used certified tranny and install rather than messing with things like grinding grooves off spindle.

What years tranny are interchangeable?

How difficult is it to replace a tranny for a weekend warrior. Must you pull entire engine or just the headers?

Thanks

#2 montana105

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 05:34 PM

First of all get a second opinion away from a tranny shop.My understanding is that if you've got bind issues putting the fuse in should eliminate the bind issue,if the symptoms don't go away there is probably something else wrong.Can you describe the issue a little better and also state mileage and tranny style(A/T or M/T). Tranny shops are notorious for wrong diagnosis and will attribute any kind of issue to a bad tranny just to get your money.Let us know more.
P.S.-I believe tranny bind is more of a feeling thru the steering wheel then a sound

#3 Gloyale

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 02:10 AM

I have a 91' w/ 183K-mi and need a new tranny (so the local tranny guy says). I got what sounds liek torque bind. Put fuse in FWD holder and still have problem (what size fuse should I use).

There is a couple in the local junkyard, but not sure what years are OK.

Main question is seems that might as well get used certified tranny and install rather than messing with things like grinding grooves off spindle.

What years tranny are interchangeable?

How difficult is it to replace a tranny for a weekend warrior. Must you pull entire engine or just the headers?

Thanks


Sounds to me like the *C* or *transfer clutch* duty solenoid has gone out.

Montana FWD fuse will release the bind if the *C* solenoid still functions, and the clutches aren't entirely siezed.

In this case, the clutches are either siezed, or more likely the *C* solenoid has failed.

I would personally just buy a new clutch set, a Solenoid, and a Gasket and service it on the car rather than replacing a known good operating trans.

It's not worth the risk unless you are getting fully rebuilt for big $$$ You never know what you will get at a J-yard. The shop may or may not back it up and it would be a pain to have to make them install a second one if the first was bunk.

#4 damone

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 11:22 AM

First of all get a second opinion away from a tranny shop.My understanding is that if you've got bind issues putting the fuse in should eliminate the bind issue,if the symptoms don't go away there is probably something else wrong.Can you describe the issue a little better and also state mileage and tranny style(A/T or M/T). Tranny shops are notorious for wrong diagnosis and will attribute any kind of issue to a bad tranny just to get your money.Let us know more.
P.S.-I believe tranny bind is more of a feeling thru the steering wheel then a sound


91' Legacy Wagon 183K Miles A/T
"power" light blinks 16 times upon start-up.


The shudder happens when turning at low speeds and you can feel it shake more in the floor and near the console area than in the steering wheel.

When trying to back -up out of a parking stall the idle can move vehicle backward until I start to turn then it binds and cannot power through without a little throttle.

If it is just the Duty C would it be worth it to pull one off a junker and replace on mine? Where is it located etc...?
Is Replacing the Duty C is a day job in the driveway? I have read you may need to remove headers and the rear shaft or something? That may have been to replace the spindle thing.

#5 wtdash

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 12:37 PM

Just replaced the Duty C solenoid AND redid the transfer clutches on my '90 Legacy - fixed the binding and a 1-2 second delay before the AWD kicked in.

Buy a NEW solenoid for <$100 - http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/
Item: PT040396 VLV AY TRF
Price: $85.14


Repairing the transfer clutches is here:
http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55651&highlight=bad+gear+good+torque+bind
and here
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=78467

Replacement does NOT require removing the trans from the car.
Removing/installing info here:
http://www.ultimates...transfer clutch


I'd get the transfer clutch out of JY, do the repair, and then do the swap. I did this (and I'm NOT a mechanic) in about 4 hours by myself. My car has very little rust underneath, so if your car came from the NE, expect some grief getting things loose.

Good luck.

#6 johnceggleston

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 12:41 PM

if you install a fuse, any fuse, in the holder marked FWD under the hood near the fire wall on the passenger side, and this cures the binding then it's probably isn't your duty c solenoid. the duty c has to work to with the fuse in to relieve the binding. it could be the tranfer clutch plates them selves.

if the fuse does not relieve the binding it probably is the duty c. you can order them online for about 75$ be sure to get 2 gaskets. (the clutch plates will cost another 100 - 150? maybe, i can't remember) the duty c is located in the rear extention housing of the trans, it can be done without dropping the trans, just the extention housing, drive shaft and exhaust. you could install a used one but unless its from a known good working trans you may be doing it again.

use the search function and look for "duty c" or torque bind. you'll have enough to keep you busy reading for a while. some people opt to swap out the whole trans but that may not be necessary. read up.

EDIT: the dealer cost for repair is ~900$.

#7 damone

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 04:26 PM

if you install a fuse, any fuse, in the holder marked FWD under the hood near the fire wall on the passenger side, and this cures the binding then it's probably isn't your duty c solenoid. the duty c has to work to with the fuse in to relieve the binding. it could be the tranfer clutch plates them selves.

if the fuse does not relieve the binding it probably is the duty c. you can order them online for about 75$ be sure to get 2 gaskets. (the clutch plates will cost another 100 - 150? maybe, i can't remember) the duty c is located in the rear extention housing of the trans, it can be done without dropping the trans, just the extention housing, drive shaft and exhaust. you could install a used one but unless its from a known good working trans you may be doing it again.

use the search function and look for "duty c" or torque bind. you'll have enough to keep you busy reading for a while. some people opt to swap out the whole trans but that may not be necessary. read up.

EDIT: the dealer cost for repair is ~900$.


I read where you can test a salvaged Duty C by energizing it and if it clunks into place then it is working. Along with the oil ports are open/closed etc...

I might go down and pull out a junker extension housing just to practice. If it comes down to me ruinig something or figuring I dont want to work on it, thwn I am only out thew $1 it costs to get in. Better to practice on a junker than ruin your own vehcile eh?

How difficult is it to replace the clutch plates while your in there?

Any special tools?

Any new gaskets/seals needed?

I assume I will need header gaskets too if those need to come off? maybe just remove from Cat back?

#8 wtdash

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 04:49 PM

How difficult is it to replace the clutch plates while your in there?

Any special tools?

Any new gaskets/seals needed?

I assume I will need header gaskets too if those need to come off? maybe just remove from Cat back?


Can't comment on replacing clutch plates...didn't get that far into it.

My tool collection is incomplete, but was adequate for this job...I don't have any air tools.:(

I got the solenoid seals and the big seal between the transmission and transfer case...no header gaskets. I dropped the entire exhaust...the cat bolts were heat-welded, and didn't want to fight 'em.

#9 damone

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 12:40 PM

Thanks.

I'll probably should order those seals today eh?

#10 johnceggleston

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 03:21 PM

How difficult is it to replace the clutch plates while your in there?


from what i've seen , it's easy. a snap ring on the hub and they come right out.

the trans shop i used to do mine, used a rtv type gasket on the rear extention housing.

#11 damone

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 03:28 PM

from what i've seen , it's easy. a snap ring on the hub and they come right out.

the trans shop i used to do mine, used a rtv type gasket on the rear extention housing.


Wonder if I can replace the shaft and the cluitch plates outta a junker as one piece??? The one i opened up looked good and could move the plates seemed liek no signs of wear.

Got Duty C outta a junker. Energized it and heard the click. Was able to blow through oil tube while it was energized and afterwards. I might need to try w/o tube in place as I mayhave been blowig through a leak at tube/Duty C connection??????

I got air to pass w/ and w/o power to Duty C.

Exhaust was already off junker and it only took about 1hr to remove driveline, cross bars, and extension housing.

Didn;t get to install on my vehicle (have to order seals), but I did remove the rear driveline and TB is gone. Running in FWD until I get seals and a few hours (a day or two) to remove mine and put used Duty C in.

A sping popped out of the housing when we worked it off the alignment pin. Looks like spring goes around a shaft inside the housing.

Any advice on putting spring back together?????

Chiltons says housing must be removed as an assembly ewith the tranny. Waste of $20.

Thanks
D

#12 Gloyale

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 01:13 AM

A sping popped out of the housing when we worked it off the alignment pin. Looks like spring goes around a shaft inside the housing.

Any advice on putting spring back together?????


That spring is the parking pawl pull off. You should be able to see the pawl, and the spring kinda loops around it and braces against the case. Pretty easy.

Now, the flat roller bearing is easy to drop. It's on the end of the output hub and is important to get back in there.

This thread http://www.ultimates...light=4eat swap
has some good photos of the trans from when I did my gear ratio/bell housing swap.

#13 damone

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 01:55 PM

Only the spring dropped. Not the flat roller bearing.

I will check photos later.
Thanks

What about putting used shaft and clutch as an assembly from a junker unit?

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 03:38 PM

Only the spring dropped. Not the flat roller bearing.

I will check photos later.
Thanks

What about putting used shaft and clutch as an assembly from a junker unit?


I'd probably use the whole damn tailshaft section from the junker.
I have run into a few subtle differences in different years, so you may want to keep the shaft matched to it's original housing.


But using just the shaft/clutch pack would probably work too.

Make sure you get all the grooves in the individual plates all aligned before trying to mate it to the output.

#15 damone

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:51 AM

I'd probably use the whole damn tailshaft section from the junker.
I have run into a few subtle differences in different years, so you may want to keep the shaft matched to it's original housing.


But using just the shaft/clutch pack would probably work too.

Make sure you get all the grooves in the individual plates all aligned before trying to mate it to the output.


So really, I shouldda just took the entire extension housing and replaced as a unti instead of pulling the Duty C out.

I put the housing and the shaft and plates inside the car on the floor just in case I needed it later.

How long can one drive w/o rear driveline w/o hurting something.

All the reading suggests everything from both extremes.




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