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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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No power, Missfiring and stalls under heavy load or when flooring it. **FIXED**


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19 replies to this topic

#1 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 01:00 AM

1984 GL Wagon, EA81 2bbl hitachi.

Before, the car would just die and cut out under heavy load... while driving uphill or quickly accelerating from a stop. I noticed the car was lacking alot of power. I sprayed a bunch of carb cleaner in the carb cause the air filter was CAKED with mud, the filter box was as well, and the outside of the carb is also caked with mud. I did the trick where you spray carb cleaner into the carb and make it barely idle... also made it suffocate and brought it back to life.

Now after I did that, the car runs like crap. It will run okay on all 4 cyl's if i keep my rev's down or feather the throttle. If I try to floor it the car starts to missfire REAL bad. It also stalls out and dies and refuses to start.

Im almost positive its the carb. Seems like it stalls or runs like crap whenever the secondary opens up.

Should I rebuild the carb? or does anyone think it can be fixed without removing the carb?

-Brian

#2 myossfeece

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 01:43 AM

yeah it does sound like the secondary is causeung the problem, but you already knew that. I haven't much experience with tearing down and rebuilding carbs, but my spfi was acting the same way when the pcv dooker came off the intake and was letting air get past the maf sensor. Once I figured that out and hooked it up I haven't had any trouble since.

It could be serviced without removing it from the intake from what I can tell, but removing it would make for easier servicing. Good luck with it. sorry I couldn't be of more help, but the only things I know for certain are what I have done myself.

#3 Danbob99

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:01 AM

i had that EXACT same problem on an old 86 hyundai excel that i used to drive. That ended the life of the car, but, after talking to many diffrent people, and after the many, many hours i spent under the hood trying to figure it out, it was decided between a bunch of us that the float in the carburator had gotten stuck in my car. i'm not sure of the similarities between the two cars, but looking at the symptoms and the decided solution, it seemed very logical. I'm not sure how you would go about fixing that, i had gotten rid of the car before i could figure it.
In any case, good luck. (this is only from personal experience, i do not know of the validity of this, sorry)

Dan

#4 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:37 AM

Yeah, i could see how the float would get clogged. You should see my engine compartment... there was so much mud, the air filter wieghed like 5lbs :) heh

I guess i'll have to tear the carb off the car and see if I cant do a quick fix to get it running good again. Gotta have it ready for Tahoe on Tuesday.

-Brian

#5 Nug

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 08:13 AM

You can try the "choke" trick. Take air cleaner off. Start engine. Grab throttle and hold it wide open. Put your palm over throat of carb. Pull your hand off when it's about to die, and let it run back up. Do it 4 or 5 times. If you have junk clogging a passage, this might get it out. It floods the carb and everything with gas, and often flushes out specks of dirt stuck in there.

Beware of backfiring out of carb, and the associated fireballs.

#6 bratman2

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 10:11 AM

SubaruJunkie, I think that little air valve recirculating crap at the top of your Y pipe will do the same thing you have described. I had the same syptoms a few years back and that was the problem. Good luck, Glenn Taylor.

#7 riverrat

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 11:51 AM

You said that the outside of the carb was also covered in mud.Did you clean the outside of the carb as well?Washing the outside of a carb can allow a vacuum leak to breath even more.With it stalling out under load I would suspect a vacuum leak.I have encountered two ea81 that had loose carbs.One was riverrat1 and the other one was one I was looking to purchase.I discovered both leaks by applying preasure to either side of the air cleaner housing.you can also spray wd-40 around the carb while running and listen for fluctuation in the idle speed engine performance.Just a thought.

I rebuilt the asian piece of crap on riverrat1.they are not dificult if you take a day and do it right.Try to rush one and it will likely haunt you.You have to have a CLEAN work erea and the room to take it apart and lay everything out in the order you take it apart.Even doing this,reassembly can be a head scratcherl.I have had some practice though.I do believe you have to purchase the entire rebuild kit to re-float the carb.Something like that rings a bell.it has been probably six years now since I did riverrat1 breather.

I would never rebuild another asian carb for a car that can recieve a weber though.Webers offer both performance boost and simplicity.One of the reasons I like the ea81 is because of there simplicity.

#8 Hondasucks

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 11:57 AM

Could also be a bad fuel pump, causing it to starve for fuel at higher throttle openings.

#9 Qman

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:10 PM

A cracked distributor cap or wet ignition will also cause these symptoms. A large vacuum leak will do it as well. When is the last time you changed the fuel filters? (Especially the rear one)

Does the carb look like it is dripping when you look down the hole while it is running? When you apply the fuel does the stream look like a fine squirt from a squirt gun or does it look more like a faucet? Have you checked for the loose carb(most comon problem with Carter/Webers) as the base plates will loosen over time?

When was your last tune up in general?

Ken

#10 edrach

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:33 PM

I'm with Ken on the fuel filters. As old as our cars are, fuel starvation can easily be caused by a clogged filter. Check the simple things first. If that doesn't solve your problem, you can always do the hard things.

#11 Mendodave

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 02:39 PM

I have had problems like this, and it does seem to be the carb/fuel supply, but it was wires...

make sure the wires and cap are clean and dry. do you have a hot coil in the wagon?

easier to check than the carb, and if you go through the carb and it does not fix it, you will be slightly perturbed...

as in PISSED!

if there is that much mud under there, it needs to be cleaned anyway!

David

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 05:28 PM

Tune up history:

Less than 6 months ago the car got a new coil, wires, plug's, cap and rotor. 2 months ago it got a new cap and rotor again cause it was fouled REAL bad on a off-road trip.

Fuel filters were both replaced when i bought the car over a year ago. I replaced the rear filter last night before i took it for a test drive, i have a new front filter and will put that on tomorrow.

Ive done the check for a vacuum leak with carb cleaner, and it didnt locate one.

Last night while cleaning the carburator (yes, outside and inside) i did the choke trick where you rev the car and cut its air supply, making it stutter and backfire. Thats when the problem got 1000x worse. So i believe its working the gunk through the jet's, and maybe got it stuck more. I havent had a chance to look down the carb... it was too dark last night.

The missfire problem is alot like the problem i had when i replaced the coil. Maybe i'll check the wires, and put this other set of 8mm wires i have on the car. Also found one of those disty boots from a toyota, so i'll check the disty cap before i install it.

Anyone have a price quote on a 2BBL HItachi rebuild kit?

-Brian

#13 Nug

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 07:25 PM

(whistles and looks at ceiling)


Hey, it works on Holleys.
Well, at least it isolated the problem, right?
I'll shut up now.

#14 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 10:06 PM

Yeah it works great. ive done the trick many times before. Again, im sure i just worked some dirt loose. I think im going to remove the carb and do a more thourough half assed job :)

-Brian

#15 Nug

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:45 PM

That's the spirit!

#16 incognito

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 11:00 PM

yeh kinda sounds like a fuel pump.

#17 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 11:19 PM

Nope, it wasnt the fuel pump. I fixed the problem, and im 99% sure it was the carburator. I pulled the air filter box off the car, and started it up. It ran like crap, and wouldnt hardly idle. I sprayed some carb cleaner around the carb, and sure enough the idle picked up and smoothed out, but not for long. I thought maybe alittle cleaner had made its way into the carb itself, and maybe that was what was keeping it from idling.

I replaced the other fuel filter and I grabbed a piece of cardboard, and revved the engine, and stuffed the cardboard over the carb... choking it to death. I did this numerous times. Every other time i would spray some carb cleaner in the carb... let it pick up idle, then rev... and repeat. Then i dumped a bunch of MMO down the carb. It was still running like crap and refused to idle. Then i looked at the air filter box, and noticed one of the hoses hanging from it, was broken off. So, i found the other end of the hose... attatched to the intake manifold. Pulled that, plugged it, and VWALLA!! It idled. Then i did the choking trick a few more times.

So... it was runing great. I sprayed around the carb with Liquid Wrench to loosen everything up and make sure things werent sticking. I didnt have an air cleaner, so i used a disposable face mask, and put that over the carb opening inside the air filter box... put the cover on, shut the hood and tried to take it for a test drive. I was amazed that I was able to accelerate without the 2ndary getting stuck open, so i floored it. Then it stuttered and died. And wouldnt start. I was able to turn the car around, and drive it into my driveway... all on the starter and a 1/2 running car. The car absolutly refused to start.

At this point, i was furious. The car was just running great in the garage, and now it refuses to start???? So i popped the hood, took the air filter cap off... and there it was :) The Mask had gotten sucked into the carb. Well, not ALL the way into the carb, but enough where it was restricting airflow. I robbed the filter from my Brat, put it in the Wagon, and started right up! Revved a few times, shut the hood and returned to my victory lap. The car ran GREAT! I was able to accelerate through all gears, without any stutter or mis-fire. Got it on the main road and had it cruising at 50, without skipping a beat. God its great to have my wagon back :)

-Brian

#18 riverrat

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 01:31 AM

A happy ending cool!

always start with the basics a mechanic I worked for once told me....

:cool:

#19 Danbob99

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 02:26 AM

hey, good news, i'm glad yo hear that you got it running. Hope my problem wasn't as simple as that, ending the life of my car...
But anywayz, Good for you, i wish you no further problems and a great car! enjoy it while you can!

#20 theshaman3

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 12:25 PM

My 93 AWD Legacy had a similar problem. When driving up inclines the motor was would lose more than 1/2 of its power. The RPMs would still shoot up when I hit the accelerator however i would not gain speed. I found that simply using mid grade or premium gasoline caused the problem to stop. It's been working for about 5 months now w/o problems so we'll see...




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