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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Could this be the source of my problems.... (WARNING PICTURES INSIDE)


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36 replies to this topic

#1 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 10:22 PM

if my carb is feedback could this be the problem? im getting 18MPG and a throttle lag....


theres a solinoide of some sorts that has a broken wire.... i removed the little valve that was in it because of this...


Posted Image


My dad played with the screw in the second hole pictured i have it 3/4 of a turn out what should it be...

Posted Image



Posted Image

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 10:42 PM

Neither one will cause that kind of poor mileage. The first is just the idle cut solenoid to prevent dieseling on shutdown. Removing the needle was the correct thing to do. Make sure the bare wire doesn't short out on something though.

The idle mixture adjustment screw that your dad messed with just changes the idle mixture to richer or leaner. That *can* have a minor effect on off-idle hessitation but it's very minor - mostly it can make another problem worse. The idle circuit has absolutely no involvement in mileage though because you are never driving it at idle. Anything over about 1500 RPM and the idle circuit receives no vacuum so cannot supply any fuel.

Your mileage problems are related to something else. Probably an incorrectly operating feedback system, and potentially vacuum leaks by the sounds of things.

GD

#3 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 10:46 PM

so what should i check... take the aircleaner housing off and look/change all vacuum line and what else?

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 10:50 PM

so what should i check... take the aircleaner housing off and look/change all vacuum line and what else?


That probably won't change anything frankly. Don't change any lines unless you actually find a leak (spray around with carb cleaner till the engine changes pitch). Some of the lines have "orifices" in them so you have to be very careful about such changes. Look and disect each line you intend to replace. Most will not need replaceing.

What you need is a factory service manual if you intend to effectively work on the feedback system. It's a computer controlled carb and there's a ton of troublshooting information that you'll need to do any proper diagnostics.

Or just put on a non-feedback Hitachi, a Weber, or SPFI. Those are much better options in my opinion.

GD

#5 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 12:38 AM

i know i need a FSM xD i have a chilton but its for 85 and newer haha so were do i find a non feedback hitachi (what years did they come on) i inspected the vacuum lines but found non that are split or had any defects... i guess i gotta get my 4door turbo rx running but from what ive herd u have to have a ton of patience to get a ea82t running right... haha O.o or how much does a weber kit run new/ used. this brat needs to :Flame: other than gas milage it runs very well no misses runs very smooth it's actually the best running subaru ive ever owned... i just dont know what to do :horse:

#6 misledxcracker

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 02:44 AM

18 MPG, you're right there with my El Camino. :drunk:

I'd say SPFI it, IMO. Then you get the best of both worlds, a pretty reliable fuel system, and a VERY reliable motor. Plus, it can be smogged anywhere!

#7 mountaingoatgruff

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:20 AM

I'd say SPFI it, IMO. Then you get the best of both worlds, a pretty reliable fuel system, and a VERY reliable motor. Plus, it can be smogged anywhere!


'cept cali...:mad:

#8 ivantruckman

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 06:46 AM

you could check your 02 sensor, my 86 ran alot better when i fixed the wire that got burnt

#9 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:42 AM

how hard is spfi to put in could i put it in in a weekend?

#10 opus

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:13 AM

I would be the first one to say stick with the carb. Carbs work and will always work. I might have a couple engines soon that I will yank clean of injection and put a carb on. Maybe we could trade intake and such for the injection stuff. Not sure what is involved but it might be an option.

#11 boxerbob

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 03:51 PM

might wanna do a compression check. all you do is unhook the ignition and fuel, take out the plug in each cyl your checking and crank for 2-3secs. my 88 GL wagon was getting 18-21mpg. #4 cyl was dead. i'm not talking low, i mean none. it would only blip the needle when cranking.

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:36 PM

I would be the first one to say stick with the carb. Carbs work and will always work. I might have a couple engines soon that I will yank clean of injection and put a carb on. Maybe we could trade intake and such for the injection stuff. Not sure what is involved but it might be an option.


That's just silly. Injection has benefits beyond what carbs can do. It's both simpler and often more reliable - there are few moving parts, and most injection systems including the SPFI being discussed here can outlive a carb easily with usually no maintenance beyond some filters.

The SPFI on my Brat for example came from a wrecked 91 Loyale with 254,000 miles on it. WRECKED - as in running fine. Show me a carb that can do that and still run like the day it rolled off the line. None can - mechanical parts wear out faster than electronic parts.

Not to mention the SPFI's computer control allows it greater flexibility with respect to tuneing. That means more power, AND better mileage across all engine speeds. Zero fuel usage while coasting under closed throttle, etc. The ECU has hundreds of mapping points for both timing and fuel. Carb's have at most a couple (usually two or three jetting points) to work with and everything inbetween is interpolated.

This whole argument over the years between carbs and fuel injection is vacuous - it's just another case of people not wanting to learn something new and finding some argument to justify their pig-headedness.

I totally understand - you were the king of the world when carbs were the last word in fuel management. Now you have to learn something new and it feels shameful to learn it from someone half your age..... I get that. It's human nature. But to tell people carbs are better because they "work" just to feel better about the situation is pretty small minded. I'm here to tell you that fuel injection "works" too - damn well I might add. And in these times of soaring gas prices it's almost criminal not to sugest he consider the conversion - even a few extra MPG is worth the additional work as the parts are cheaper than a new Weber and plentiful to boot.

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#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:38 PM

And here's my conversion write-up:

http://home.comcast..../EA81_SPFI.html

GD

#14 opus

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:56 PM

Well, I guess coming from a city dweller, that might work. Live here and see how far you get when you involve something electronic or computer operated that is that age. Could be the difference between life and death.

As for the rest of your post....I'll just attribute it to you still being a kid.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 09:55 PM

Live here and see how far you get when you involve something electronic or computer operated that is that age. Could be the difference between life and death.


I live in Oregon. Yes I live near a city, but BFE is not far.

I agree when it comes to a lot of the newer cars. But the SPFI is primitive as injection goes. A very, very small box of spare parts and some know-how are all you need. Carbs are no different - you still need to carry spare parts regardless of the fuel system. And even if you have a carb, there are still just as many situations that will get you stranded. This supposed "random electronics failure" that everyone is scared of rarely materializes, and a short read through a few posts on here and elsewhere will give you a comprehensive list of those items that should always be on hand for spares.

It boils down to being prepared. And with electronics as with many things that just means having a backup plan - be it a part, or a sat-phone, or a folded up ultra-light in the back of your wagon.... people without plans die. That's life. Making a plan for fuel injection is no harder than it is for anything else. It just takes some education and you aren't willing to get it. Thats fine with me - but don't give BS excuses about stuff being inferior just because you don't understand it. Let the man make his own decisions. If you have legitemate concerns about specific failures or components that you have experience with - then by all means express those concerns. Sweeping generalizations about the inferiority of fuel injection will get you flamed.... in case you haven't noticed ;).

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#16 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:42 PM

well i have a wrecked 1991 spifi Loyale thats sitting in my back yard runs well but has blown head gaskets could i use that fuel system on my braT?

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:44 PM

well i have a wrecked 1991 spifi Loyale thats sitting in my back yard runs well but has blown head gaskets could i use that fuel system on my braT?


Did you look at my write-up? Link ^ up there.

GD

#18 opus

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:47 PM

[bangs head on desk]

#19 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:52 PM

[bangs head on desk]


That's fine because this isn't about convincing you. It's about convincing all of them [sweeps arm wide - indicating a crowd]. Your opinions are formed - nothing I say will change them.

GD

#20 opus

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 10:53 PM

You get an A for effort though. ;)

#21 ()__1337_CRAYOLA__()>

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 11:34 PM

wow the spfi looks and from what i read to complicated for me....

#22 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:40 AM

wow the spfi looks and from what i read to complicated for me....


It's not that bad, but it looks like it is till you read through it a few times and get your head around everything that needs to be done. The SPFI is actually quite simple - one injector, and just half a dozen sensors or so. A few fuses, some power supply wires, and a bit of wireing. It pretty much bolts together, and once you have an understanding of fuel injection in general as well as the factory service information at the bottom of my write up - it's no big deal.

GD

#23 mountaingoatgruff

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 06:52 AM

i must say as someone who has successfully performed an spfi conversion that i'm glad i did it.

for one, my mileage makes my friends and family cry when they limp their cars to the gas station every week.:-p

i trust my car now (well, except for the tranny but that's another story). my carb was pretty bad off so my newfound faith in my hatch's ability to carry me hence may not have much weight to it but in doing the swap i learned enough about the spfi system that i've been able to fix all the problems i've had with it since installation and i'm confident that i can fix whatever i may need to in the future. and so you know, these are the problems i've had:

code 34 - egr solenoid circuit malfunction (replaced solenoid with more reliable nippondenso unit from a toyota - notice how new gen subarus use those nippondenso solenoids)

lost spark while test driving during swap (cuz one of the nuts on the terminals of my coil was loose, simple fix - make sure it has a split washer if this happens to you)

bad missing/bogging under heavy acceleration, especially in higher gears (timing was set to 8deg for ea81 spec - set timing at 20deg for spfi spec and its happy now)

and that's it. my spfi parts came off a 92 loyale from co that was the junkyard ragdoll when i found it. i expected to have to replace all kinds of parts but even with the abuse and neglect it suffered all i have replaced is that egr solenoid, the iacv ($5 at another yard) and regular maintenance items.

now for the reality check - this is NOT an easy swap. you will NOT be able to do this in a weekend. GD, myself, and others are here to help anyone who wants to do it but i refuse to let anyone belive this swap is easy. there's a lot of stuff you'll be forced to figure out for yourself like how to rig your air cleaner, how to configure and where to locate your added fuses/fusibles/relays, etc. also, GD has done a great job of providing info in his writeup, but you'll most likely be wondering what the hell he is talking about in some parts of the wiring section (;)) so just ask. its not easy, but its definitely been worth it for me!

...now if i could only smog the thing and be done...

#24 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:59 AM

Yeah - wireing is the biggest hurdle for most folk. People start doing the potty dance when I start talking wireing :o

I need to rewrite and add to the wireing section - more pictures of the process of stripping a donor harness. People freak when they see 20 feet of wireing harness with 100 connectors come out of a Loyale.

GD

#25 opus

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:45 AM

GD, you should start making custom harnesses so people wont have to yard out old stuff. :) There you go, make a kit and sell it.




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