MR_Loyale Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I am planning on removing the engine on my 93 Loyal to do the timing belts, cluth and a reseal. I wanted to run the list by everyone to see it I missed anything. Camshaft Seals Oil pump seals Water Pump Front and Rear main seals Oil pan gasket Did I miss anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 ... to do the timing belts... ...Did I miss anything? Yes! ... If you want to Change your Subie`s Timin` Belts, I Must Suggest you to Check and Change the Belts Tensioneers` Ball Bearings. I`ve seen some Good Timin` Belts Jobs, Failed by a Tired Ball Bearing... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Valve cover gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 PermaTorq headgaskets. You don't have those on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 here i is again since i replied to the same thing in your "new generation" thread: What I would add: Camshaft seals - you'll want a camshaft seal kit (thepartsbin.com has them) - they come with the shaft seal and the oring behind the cam cap (that holds the seal). do not replace just the seal, replace both. Valve cover gaskets and grommets Replace or regrease the timing belt pulleys (there's a thread on how to regrease them in the USRM, but EA82's are cheap - ebay all the way for the timing kits with all new pulleys) Intake manifold gaskets (just the ones on top of the heads - i just posted a thread with the part numbers). They leak coolant into the cylinders frequently and my personal opinion is it happens more often to motors that have been pulled. Either way, they fail enough that doing them while the motor is out is a good idea. If you do these i'd sick with Subaru gaskets for these. Optional: With the engine out i'd consider resealing the cam carriers. That will require one metal reinforced oring per side at the bottom of the cam towers. The partsbin.com has them for around $2.19 each and subaru usually has them in stock for the same price as well. That's all you need, the perimeter is sealed with tube sealant - Anaerobic is the proper stuff but many people use RTV. If you don't have any oil leakage here then you may be fine. The next step would be head gaskets...but that's a large can of worms (resurface, valve job, etc) that you might not need. Edit/Delete Message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 here i is again since i replied to the same thing in your "new generation" thread: What I would add: Camshaft seals - you'll want a camshaft seal kit (thepartsbin.com has them) - they come with the shaft seal and the oring behind the cam cap (that holds the seal). do not replace just the seal, replace both. Valve cover gaskets and grommets Replace or regrease the timing belt pulleys (there's a thread on how to regrease them in the USRM, but EA82's are cheap - ebay all the way for the timing kits with all new pulleys) Intake manifold gaskets (just the ones on top of the heads - i just posted a thread with the part numbers). They leak coolant into the cylinders frequently and my personal opinion is it happens more often to motors that have been pulled. Either way, they fail enough that doing them while the motor is out is a good idea. If you do these i'd sick with Subaru gaskets for these. Optional: With the engine out i'd consider resealing the cam carriers. That will require one metal reinforced oring per side at the bottom of the cam towers. The partsbin.com has them for around $2.19 each and subaru usually has them in stock for the same price as well. That's all you need, the perimeter is sealed with tube sealant - Anaerobic is the proper stuff but many people use RTV. If you don't have any oil leakage here then you may be fine. The next step would be head gaskets...but that's a large can of worms (resurface, valve job, etc) that you might not need. Edit/Delete Message I am so sorry about that. I thought I had posted on the older generation area. Thanks for not calling me the total idiot I obviously am. And thanks for replying twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Thanks for not calling me the total idiot i'm the idiot for posting twice too - ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 With the clutch job, I would replace the throw-out bearing clips and re-grease the pivot ball / fork interface and replace that clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Clutch?he's on it, just with a typo: I am planning on removing the engine on my 93 Loyal to do the timing belts, cluth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Gary, you are ready to pounce quicker than I can read through and correct myself... he's on it, just with a typo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 ha ha, i didn't even look at the time, it just happened to come to the top of "new" posts again cause you posted. clutch parts are a great idea. i'd replace everything, throw out bearing, clips, and pilot bearing. if you buy a good clutch kit that stuff usually comes with it except for the throw out bearing clips. those are common to EA,ER, and EJ engines so Subaru always has them in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Thank you everyone for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I am planning on removing the engine on my 93 Loyal to do the timing belts, cluth and a reseal. I wanted to run the list by everyone to see it I missed anything. Camshaft Seals Oil pump seals Water Pump Front and Rear main seals Oil pan gasket Did I miss anything? Don't forget the O-ring that is behind each cam seal retainer. Also, when you take the seal out of the retainer, you will notice behind the seal, at the 6:00 and 9:00 position, are two oil drain back holes. If you drill a hole at the 6:00 position, the oil will not pool up in the retainer behind the seal, and hence won't tend to spew oil after a few thousand miles. One of the tricks I learned from the guy I work with @ the Subaru dealer who has been working on Subies since 78 lol (He remembers doing brakes on ff-1s!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDave Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Don't forget the O-ring that is behind each cam seal retainer. Also, when you take the seal out of the retainer, you will notice behind the seal, at the 6:00 and 9:00 position, are two oil drain back holes. If you drill a hole at the 6:00 position, the oil will not pool up in the retainer behind the seal, and hence won't tend to spew oil after a few thousand miles. One of the tricks I learned from the guy I work with @ the Subaru dealer who has been working on Subies since 78 lol (He remembers doing brakes on ff-1s!) I'm having a hard time visualizing this (need coffee). What do you drill the hole into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I'm having a hard time visualizing this (need coffee). What do you drill the hole into?don't worry about it. he's just talking about the oil sitting behind the seal/cap that may come out when you replace the oring and seal. very little oil comes out when you do this job so i wouldn't worry about it. i can't ever recall much at all coming out, i've certainly never thought of it as a "problem". pull the seal and wipe a few drops of oil that come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Don't forget the O-ring that is behind each cam seal retainer. Also, when you take the seal out of the retainer, you will notice behind the seal, at the 6:00 and 9:00 position, are two oil drain back holes. If you drill a hole at the 6:00 position, the oil will not pool up in the retainer behind the seal, and hence won't tend to spew oil after a few thousand miles. One of the tricks I learned from the guy I work with @ the Subaru dealer who has been working on Subies since 78 lol (He remembers doing brakes on ff-1s!) AWESOME! :banana: Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 don't worry about it. he's just talking about the oil sitting behind the seal/cap that may come out when you replace the oring and seal. very little oil comes out when you do this job so i wouldn't worry about it. i can't ever recall much at all coming out, i've certainly never thought of it as a "problem". pull the seal and wipe a few drops of oil that come out. No, I'm referring to the fact that the cam seal is what stops the oil that's in the cam tower from coming out the front of the engine, that oil pools up behind the cam seal, since the drainback holes are halfway up the retainer, instead of at the bottom where they should be, so instead of the oil draining out, it pools up and sits there behind the seal. It's not necessary, and if you aren't comfortable doing it, then don't, but the guy who showed it to me has been a Subaru tech for 30+ years, and he said if you do that they won't leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Well after carefully labeling everything as I took it apart, I got the engine out with a minimum of cuss words and all my knuckle skin intact. I probably set the record for taking the most time to get to this point as I have been working on and off for two days on this. Amazingly neither the pressure plate bolts, flywheel bolts or the main crank pulley nut gave me any trouble on removal. Actually the flywheel bolts were rather easy to break the lock on. The flywheel had no scarring, just a glaze. So I am getting the glaze removed tomorrow. Since I took the entire week off for this, I am ahead of schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 good job boss! took off the entire week - wowsers, enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Ok I am at the scary part of the timing belt. If I screw this up I will never hear the end of it from my father who has been working on engines all his life. He insists I should never move the flywheel once I took off the belts. I told him I got the instructions from the experts online. So I am putting in the driver's side belt (EA82) and I lined up the three ticks ont he flywheel to the bell housing indicator. However I have a question. There are three ticks. Which tick do I line up with and as I face the engine from the flywheel looking forward to the front of the motor, do I line up using the very edge of the idicator on the housing? Or am I making this too complicated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Too complicated. Put the pointer in the middle of the 3 tick marks and call it good. On the drivers side camshaft put the dot up, passenger side put it down, put the belts on....voilà! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Ok I am at the scary part of the timing belt. If I screw this up I will never hear the end of it from my father who has been working on engines all his life. He insists I should never move the flywheel once I took off the belts. I told him I got the instructions from the experts online. That's just silly. Engines come in many flavors, shapes, and sizes. It's just as easy to design an engine where the flywheel should be moved when installing the belts as it is to design one where it should be stationary. In the case of the EA82, the engine is non-interference and cannot be harmed from incorrect timing belt installation. The worst that will happen is you will have to redo the timing. The reason the flywheel is rotated 360 degrees after the drivers side cam is installed is because the cams are at their unloaded (all valves more or less closed) state when the timing mark is straight up so it's easier to position them there. Moving the flywheel with the belts off is not going to do any harm to any engine unless you time it improperly. All engines have methods by which they can be timed if the position of the flywheel is unknown. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 Too complicated. Put the pointer in the middle of the 3 tick marks and call it good. On the drivers side camshaft put the dot up, passenger side put it down, put the belts on....voilà! Yeah, that is what I ended up doing. I got both belts on and am positive it is correct. I will know tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 That's just silly. Engines come in many flavors, shapes, and sizes. It's just as easy to design an engine where the flywheel should be moved when installing the belts as it is to design one where it should be stationary. In the case of the EA82, the engine is non-interference and cannot be harmed from incorrect timing belt installation. The worst that will happen is you will have to redo the timing. The reason the flywheel is rotated 360 degrees after the drivers side cam is installed is because the cams are at their unloaded (all valves more or less closed) state when the timing mark is straight up so it's easier to position them there. Moving the flywheel with the belts off is not going to do any harm to any engine unless you time it improperly. All engines have methods by which they can be timed if the position of the flywheel is unknown. GD I agree with you. I made a very similar argument about it. In the end when it looked like he still didn't get it, I politey asked him to go back in the house and let me work on it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 In the end when it looked like he still didn't get it, I politey asked him to go back in the house and let me work on it alone.ha ha!!! problem solved. we need a new forum "How to talk to people that don't know Subaru's" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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