5 replies to this topic

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

First of All: I Hope this Write Up will Help anyone with Electrical Problems due to bad Relays, Such as Power Windows, Air Conditioneer, HeadLamps, etc... Thanks for Reading!

You Know that when you Switch Almost Anything Electric in your any car -Like your Subie- There is a Relay Takin` the Main Job of Sending the Power to the Accesory you Switched On; the Switch that you Touch or Handle, is just a "Remote Control Signal Sender" to those Relays.

Very Long Long Time Ago, I had Problems with my White Wagon`s (a Pearl White 1985 EA82 FWD Weberized Subaru Wagon) Electric Powered Windows, and then Long time ago with the Air Conditioneer too. I Found that the Fault of Slow Workin` / Non Workin` Windows was due to a Bad Relay; Also the A/C Engaging & Working Problems.

An Easy Fix Would be to Just Change the Round Original 22 Amps Relay, But Those Relays aren`t Easy to Find, They Need the Whole 12V to engage Properly, they are Expensive, and they are just 22 Amps Rated... :-\ ...

The Best Solution of All is to Swap There a Bosch Standard Relays. I`ve Done it to the Main A/C Relay (Under the Dash) the Two Auxiliary A/C Relays (Near the Engine, under the WidShield) the Power Windows Relay, and now, the two HeadLamps Relays. I`ll Explain How To do it Here, to Help Anyone with that Situations... the Explanations Here are Useful to Swap Any Round Relay with a Bosch Standard one.

Bosch Standard Relays comes in Many Quality Brands, Not Only Bosch (I Saw Bosch`s Made in Portugal, Germany and Brazil) There are many Other Brands that Make the Bosch Standard, like Hella, Wagner, Flösser, Osram, Sylvania, Potter & Brumfield, etc... so They are Easy to Find, They are Cheaper, and Give Better / Faster Response; they just need as Little as 8 Volts to Engage, are more Reliable, and are Rated from 30 Amps to 40 Amps, so They`ll Last Longer too... ...

This is a "Potter & Blumfield" 40 Amps Relay, Made in USA, that I Swaped in, instead the Main A/C Relay Under the DashBoard:

But to Swap a Bosch Standard Relay in your Subie, You`ll Need to Cut off the Subie`s Plug and Weld there a Bosch Standard Plug. I`ll Explain How to do That Too. is Easier than you Could Imagine, but keep Readin` Carefully, and Do Not Forget to Remove one of the Subie Battery`s Plug Before Start Cutting / Welding any Wire.

Please: Be Careful to do That. The Plugs` Swap is needed to be Done just once at All for each Relay Unit; then in the Future if you Need to Change the Bosch Relay, the Plug Stays, you Just Need to Pull the Relay from it, and put there a Fresh New Relay; and That`s All!

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

-Power Windows` Relay is Located Under the Front Passenger`s Seat, Under the Carpet, Near to the Door`s Opening. To Work Properly you`ll need to Remove the Plastic Carpet Retainers near the Door Opening, and move Up the Carpet... I Suggest to Remove the Whole Seat to have Enough Working Space to do it easy, to cut the Old Plug and Weld the New Plug`s Wires to the Subie`s Wires, then Putting on the New Bosch Relay.

Do Not Forget to cover Properly and Separately Each Welded Wire with Good Electrical insulator Tape, Then Cover all Wires with Tape too.

Changin` the Round Original 22 Amps Relay, with a Bosch one there, Gave me a Better \ Powerfully / Faster Responding Happier Power Windows!

The Air Conditioneer is Very Needed Here, in my Country (Honduras); but Not due to the High Temps at Summer, it is Needed due to the Very Large Stormy Wheather Season, to keep the Windshield Glass Clean; so it is Needed for Safety while Driving During RainStorms.

-The A/C was Acting like This: When you Switched On it, the Outside Fan and the Main Compressor Worked along the Inside Blower, then after some Seconds, the Outside things Stopped to Work, keeping On Just the Inside Blower, or sometimes Everything Stopped to Work, and if you Switched it Off, it will Never turn On Again, untill many Minutes Passed away, or even Untill Next Day... ...

So I Swapped the Two Outside A/C Auxiliary Relays and the Inside -Under Dash`s- Main A/C Relay with Bosch Units, (Along with the Plugs as I Said Before) and since That, A/C is Working Fantastic! ... ... Faster and Holds On Stronger!

There are Four Under-Dash`s Relays, this is How the Main A/C Relay Looks Like Already Swapped in, Next to the Remaining Original Subie`s Relays:

Yes, That`s my Hand Holding `em!

To Find the Under Dash`s Relays, First you Need to Remove the Plastic Covers (Above the Pedals) and Then Remove the Whole Fuses Box.

Looking Straight Above the Fuses Box, Behind the SunGlasses Tray, You`ll See the Relays Hanging there by a Metallic Holder, just like the Fuel Filter is Hold Near the Gas Tank.

-The Main HeadLamps Relays are Two, they have Identical Wires and they Work Interconnected. They have two Functions each one: One Relay is for the Driver`s side (Left) HeadLamp AND the DashBoard`s Lights (its power out line have a black wire with Red stripe); the Other Relay is for the Passenger`s Side (Right) HeadLamp AND the Blue Lights Indicator of the High Beam at the DashBoard (its power out line have a black wire with Yellow stripe).

One Relay Works Along the Other.

So if the Left Relay Fails, the DashBoard`s Lights go Off and the Driver`s HeadLamp Goes -Almost- Off (too Dim). And if the Right Relay Fails, the High Beams blue lights Indicator at the DashBoard and the Passenger`s Side HeadLamp Goes -Almost- Off (too Dim).

Before Startin` to Cut Wires like Crazy I Suggest to find some Voltage Tester like the one I Have:

it will Help you to Find the Live Wire, and the Others... I`ll Explain it Soon; Keep Reading Carefully!

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

You Need to Understand First, How a Relay Works; Then you Need to Find the Right Wires for Each Relay Pin, and Everything will be Just Fine!

Understanding Relays:

A Relay is a ByPass of Power, to Remotely Switch On / Off an Accessory. A Standard Bosch Relay have Four Pins (There are Five Pins Versions Too, but That will be Explained soon) the Pins are Named:

Nº 30 = Fused Permanent Hot Line (+), Always On.

Nº 87 = Line Out (+), to Power the Accesory.
Nº 86 = Permanent Ground (-).
Nº 85 = Possitive (+) Imput, is the Signal to Switch On (+ in) or Off (+ out) the Relay.

So Pin 30 (+) Pass the Power to Pin 87 (+), when Power is Applied to Pins 85 (+) and 86 (-)

Is Important to Know that Since Pins 85 and 86 are the Remote Switch Signal, you can Remove the Permanent Ground (-) at Pin 86 and connect it to a Switching Ground; Leaving the Pin 85 (+) Permanent, Always On (you can Connect it Directly to the Same Wire that comes to the Nº 30 Pin that is Always On Too, That`s how a Three Wires` Relay Works) so you can Control the Relay sending Just a Ground (-) Signal, instead a Possitive (+) Signal.

Pin connections are as follows:

Pins 85 and 86 are your control inputs: Applying 12 volts ( + ) to one side and ground ( - ) to the other will cause the relay to activate (actually, these relays will activate with as little as 8 volts, (but that's another story for a much more detailed discussion). Polarity is not important here and you can put your switch either in the power side or the ground side, depending on what you're doing. Generally though, you usually apply power ( + ) to pin 85 and ground ( - ) to pin 86, but this is not really important.

(One technical thing you need to do here though, if you install a relay through the power of electronic sensitive devices, get yourself a 1N4001 diode (or any 1N4000 series diode), install it across pins 85 and 86 with the band side toward the positive connection. It will act as a surge protector in a way (the coil creates a magnetic field which turns back on itself when power is removed, creating a power surge of little current but high voltage which can damage devices in the circuit if left alone).

Pin 30:is usually your high current input, either directly from the battery (fused, of course) or from an ignition or accessory circuit output from your ignition switch (also fused). In some cases, pin 30 is used for output instead of input, but we won't discuss that here since it doesn't apply to basic wiring.

Pin 87: is for 12 volt power to the device you want to power up when the relay is activated (when you press the horn button, for example).

in the Five Pins Relays, You`ll Find an "87a" Pin:

Pin 87aa is for alternative) is only used if you need power to flow through the contacts when the relay is NOT powered up (such as a starter kill in an alarm harness) or if you are diverting power from one place to another by activating the Relay (for example, if you are using the relay as a headlight dimmer switch).

So When Relay is Off, the Permanent Power from Pin Nº 30, will Flow to the Pin Nº 87a; and when Relay is On, the Power from Pin Nº 30 will Flow to the Pin Nº 87 as Usual in Four Pin Relays.

Please Note that Four and Five Pins Relays Looks like the Same, they got the Same Pin Numbers too, but their Pins are Located at Different Places, so if you Pull a Four Pin Relay from its Plug, you can put a Five Pins Relay There, but the Five Pins one Will Not Work there at All.

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:44 PM.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

To Change the Subie`s Plugs, Cutting off the Old one, Welding the New One:

First: Do a Simple "Test" with the Voltage Tester, to Find the Live Plug, it Shall Goes to the Pin Nº 30, then Test each Wire turnin` On and Off the HeadLamps Switch to Find the Other Wires and their Locations; then Simply put the New Relay in the New Plug, and insert its Wires to the Subie`s Old Plug, so you can Test if it Works Properly Before Cutting Wires...

See How I Tested my New Relay Before Cutting the Wires:

I

I Did Found Correctly Each Wire`s Pin, so it Worked Great!

Then, I Marked Each Wire with Written Maskin` Tape. Then Cutting and Welding with a Soldering Gun & Rosin Core, Non-Ferrous Stain, Each Wire...

...One by One...

... Cuttin`, Weldin` and Isolating...

...One by One...

That is How it Looks Like Now, The Two Yellow Plugs are the New Bosch Standards, Holding Bosch Relays for the HeadLamps; They Works Great! ...

...Now my Subie`s HeadLights are Brighter than Ever (Just like a New Car) and so the DashBoard Lights too! ...

During Those Relays Swap, I Discovered many Things on my Subie, one is that the Two MainHeadLamps` Relays Always come On when you Turn the Key to the On Position (When the Car`s Engine is Running Too) Even if you have the HeadLights Switch Off ... ... So They`re Hot Always the Car is On.

That is Because Subaru Designed the Outside Wires (the Lamps` Wires) to Have the Possitive (+) Wire -the Middle One on Each Bulb`s Plug- Always On; the Main HeadLights Switch just Turns On or Off the Ground for the HeadLights; so the Main Key can Control `em Too... That`s Why the HeadLights goes Off if you turn your Subie`s Engine Off, even with the HeadLights` Switch in "ON" Position.

Another Thing I Discovered is How the Subaru`s Relays Plugs are Wired, I made a Drawing of That, so You can Easily Swap Old Roundie Relays with Standard Bosch Relays, it will Improve Electrical Things` Performance.

See my Drawing:
(You can Save it, Right Click - Save As - it is a Jpg File I Made for Help you)

Well... I Hope that This Write Up I Made can Help Anyone needing to Swap Relays on theis Cars. (it Works Equal for Non-Subaru Cars with Those Rounded Relays, in Other Aplications too, like SuperChargers, etc...)

Now I Can Enjoy my 9104 Rally Bulbs at Fully Power!

Warnings! :

Remember: Use this Ideas at your Own Risk, Please be Sure that You`ve Understanded Well All the Instructions Before Proceed; Also if you Haven`t Used a Soldering Gun / Iron Before, Call a Friend or Someone with Enough Experience; `cos Bad Use of it may cause Serious Burning on the Skin and the Car`s Plastics... etc...

If you Don`t Want to Weld the Wires, I Don`t Suggest to Cut Any Wire; Because an Unwelded Wire can Cause Serious Problems, due to Bad Contact (Corrosion, Dew, etc) Short Circuits, etc... Soon or Late.

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:44 PM.
Just to Center Images ;)

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

The Last Step is to Fix Each Relay one Next to Another, leaving enough Space Between `em to keep cool Air Flowin` Thru... They get very Warm when the Car is Runnin` (or Key is in "ON" Position)

is Good Idea to Keep the Subaru`s design of let the "Unknown" Relay between the Left & Right HeaLamp`s Relays, `cos that "Unknown" is Cool everytime... so the Main Headlamp`s Relays Won`t "Share" their Heat with Each Other, increasing it...

(I Don`t Know what that Relay Does... I Tried Disconnecting it and Starting the Car: Fuel Pump Works, Electric Mirrors Works, Wiper / Washers -even the Rear one- Works, etc... so it is "Unknown" for me... )

I`ll get some long enough Piece of Metal and Drill in it the Four Holes to Hold to it Each Relay, Separately with a Screw.

For Now I`ll Leave `em Like This:

For One Week, Untill Next Weekend, to Test `em and Watch their Behavior.

They`re Workin` Very Good!

GREAT!!!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Good Luck!

Best Regards & Blessings!

JesZeK

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:44 PM.
To Add Some More Info...

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Well... I Drove my Subie with those Relays Hangin` around there for far more than a Week... Enough Test, They Work Awesome!

Time to Put `em Back to their Place... So I Obtained a Solid Metal Angle, I Drilled Four Holes in one Angle`s Side for the Relay`s Screws and Two Holes in the Other Angle`s Side to Hold it Up.

After Sandpaper & Covered it with AntiRust Paint, I Put the Two HeadLamps` Relays in the Corners, Away each Other to Prevent the Heat interchange.

Those are the Yellow ones:

Then, in order to Prevent a Loosen Contact, I Attached a Nylon / Plastc Tie to Each Relay, it Wraps Around the Relay and it`s Base, Between the Wires:

Then I Cutted the Remaining end of the Ties, Finally ended Lookin like This:

Then I Removed the Old Subie`s Relays Base, and Attached the New one.

Closed everything and That`s it All!

You can See the Old Relays Base, with one of Them, and Compare here:

I Hope This Can Help you to Fix / Improve your Subie`s Relays.

Kind Regards.

JesZeK

Edited by subeman90, 22 February 2012 - 07:45 PM.