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Coolant additive...


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15 replies to this topic

#1 MR_Loyale

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:05 PM

I was listening to a local auto talk radio show this morning and they had a question about Subaru's and coolant. The host said that Subaru has a coolant additive that must be added or else the head gaskets can be compromised.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Is this another piece of common Subaru knowledge of which I have been clueless or is this BS?

#2 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:26 PM

They might be talking about an additive they had with the first phase of the 2.5 liter block. It had open decks and had a pretty high rate of HG failures. Subaru tried to band-aid the problem with an additive, pretty much a block sealer. They redesigned the HG and solved the problem. They also closed the deck of the new phases of blocks and solved it.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:30 PM

That's not *exactly* correct (edit - in response to the original post - the talk show host's claim is not correct - [HTi]Johnson posted while I was posting).

Subaru had a problem with the phase I and phase II EJ25's. Specifically they had internal and external coolant leaks respectively.

The REAL fix is to put in new head gaskets (they were redesigned several times and most people report the latest generation are fine). But due to the cost of this, and the fairly large number of vehicles affected by this potential problem, Subaru instructed the dealers to first try an additive product that is supposed to seal small leaks. If that doesn't work they are to replace the gaskets.

But this ONLY applies to EJ25 phase I and II vehicles and no others. All other engines, as well as phase I/II EJ25's with the updated gaskets use plain coolant.

GD

#4 Frank B

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:40 PM

That show was not talking about the older subaru's that's for sure. The only additive you need for them is adding a new radiator, head gaskets, thermostat, intake gaskets, CTS, and a heater core flush!!



Not to change the subject, but I'm changing the subject....
What years are these phase I II engines? Or should I say, at what point did they start using the improved design parts on the assembly line?

#5 Gloyale

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:51 PM

Johnson']They redesigned the HG and solved the problem. They also closed the deck of the new phases of blocks and solved it.


They did redesign the head gaskets. But as far as I know, the blocks are still open deck.

I think we would here some major hoop'n and holler'n if subaru had produced new "closed deck" blocks. But as of yet, the only closed deck EJs are the 2.2 Turbos from 90-94 Legacies.

Anyhow, that is New Gen stuff.

Any EA series motor should not need any additives.

#6 jonas

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:28 PM

sorry, sort of a hijack here but has anyone tried those non-toxic coolants? reason i ask is i have alot of animals and even tho i'm really carefull with my coolant changes i usually do manage to spill/slop some.

#7 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:43 PM

I think we would here some major hoop'n and holler'n if subaru had produced new "closed deck" blocks. But as of yet, the only closed deck EJs are the 2.2 Turbos from 90-94 Legacies.


The STi's EJ257 block is semi-closed deck. It allows them to be die-cast but gives them basically the strength of the closed deck blocks. It's a better alternative to open but still cheap to produce. Sand casting of blocks is very expensive which is why the last one's were the EJ22G blocks used in the turbo Legacy's and the 22B Impreza.

GD

#8 Turbone

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 03:52 PM

Water Wetter FTW! :headbang:



Especially for EA82T's ;)

#9 zstalker

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 07:47 PM

Here it is folks, the actual TSB from Subaru of America regarding the recommendation to use proper coolant, no flushing machines (since ammended to allow one specific brand/type), and instructions to use their specific additive every time coolant is replaced. Also notice, the TSB is addressed to apply to "all vehicles"...and "for all Subaru vehicles with aluminum engines and radiators"
Posted Image

#10 paulpicard

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:17 PM

Care to supply a readable image?? :)

#11 Turbone

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:14 PM

Care to supply a readable image?? :)


Click on the pic :cool:

#12 paulpicard

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:35 PM

Click on the pic :cool:

Why thanks, but when I open the attachment, there's a tiny image and I can click it all I want. Stays tiny. Probably a browser bug.

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:53 PM

Also notice, the TSB is addressed to apply to "all vehicles"...and "for all Subaru vehicles with aluminum engines and radiators"


It applies to "all vehicles" in the sense that it applies to everything made in the last ten years (all they are generally concerned with), and using the conditioner in an EA engines will not *hurt* anything. It won't help either, and is simply a waste of money.

Subaru, nor anyone else for that matter, will be convincing me I need to buy some conditioner for an engine with 240k miles and 24 years under it's belt..... besides isn't it a little bit suspicious that they tell you to use only Subaru genuine coolant AND the additive ALL the time? So... why isn't the additive already in the coolant? Makes no sense - I mean obviously they are rebranding someone else's coolant, but why add stuff? There's plenty of manufacturers that use aluminum engine blocks and radiators.

Sounds like a marketing driven decision, or a reactionary band-aid to cover an unsound piece of engineering.

GD

#14 zstalker

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:14 AM

It applies to "all vehicles" in the sense that it applies to everything made in the last ten years

for sure...they're really not concerned about EA motors...those that have survived till today aren't their concern anymore.

...but why add stuff? ... Sounds like a ... reactionary band-aid to cover an unsound piece of engineering

the using only Subaru coolant sounds like just a "for sure" safety measure for their cooling systems (especially while under warranty), but the mandatory use of the additive (basically a high-quality stop-leak), does indeed seem like a "oh crap that was a bad design...what are we going to do instead of replace every headgasket we've built?" move.
~Erik~

#15 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 11:36 AM

...and "for all Subaru vehicles with aluminum engines and radiators"


My Subies are the Exception: They Carry "Made in Honduras" Old Style Brass Radiators... :D

...
Any EA series motor should not need any additives.


Great! :burnout:

#16 zstalker

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:32 PM

I still wonder why it's ok that even newer Subaru cars have a brass transmission fluid cooler inside the radiator. Is brass (an alloy of copper) chemically different enough from actual copper that it's not an issue?




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