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can lifter tick causing knock sensor to pull timing


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15 replies to this topic

#1 s'ko

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:44 AM

So my lifter tick has not gone away.

This is a rebuilt head w/stock bottom end. There is about 1500 miles on the rebuilt.

I did not touch the shortblock.

The lifter tick is constant. Used a mechanic's stethoscope and isolated the noise to the driver side head. pulled spark plugs one at a time from that head and the noise level did not change. Pretty sure it's the lifters and not the bottom end or piston slap. Tried using a little MMO and its still there. Plans are to change oil next month and put more MMO in there to address the lifter tick.

I was driving to work today and I noticed that the engine was pinging when i am at 1/2 throttle and boosting. When I back off the throttle, the pinging stops.

I am going to autozone to get some octane boost to stop the pinging, but has anyone experienced a knock sensor pulling timing b/c a lifter tick?

Is there a way to test the see if the knock sensor is pulling timing?
can I unbolt the knock sensor remove it from the block and then see if it's detonating?

BW

#2 Bmm001

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:21 PM

Are you talking about hydraulic lifters? I've heard they tick if they're not "filled" properly.

This article on Endwrench talks about it:
http://endwrench.com...alve07MayEW.pdf

Brian

#3 nipper

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:57 PM

You can just unplug the knock sensor.

I dont think lifter tick will thorw it off, as it is removed from the knock sensor by many gaps from moving parts.

If this is a rebuilt head it should not be ticking. Did you replace the lifters?


A noise that can throw it off is a bad timing blet idler/tensioner bearing.

nipper

#4 BoostedBalls

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 03:15 PM

It shouldn't effect the knock sensor.

Have you tried using seafoam in the oil to clear it up?
Are you using a fram oil filter? (hope not)
If your engine is over 150k you might try 10W40 oil.

#5 grossgary

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 03:47 PM

good job narrowing it down to an HLA problem and not oil supply related (we hope!).

for stuck HLA's the best solution is to replace them of course. but if you can't/won't/don't want to then seafoam is a good option and i've run up to 2 quarts of ATF in the oil (but this is in an XT6 which holds 5 quarts). yes others will say that's ridiculous and i don't blame them.

some old guy told me to run kerosene in place of the oil for 2 minutes, "used to do that all the time, you wouldn't believe how much came out of those engines". how much what, metal? yeah i'll pass on that one!

try all the solutions you care to try but if the HLA is seized it won't free up. i've seen them so seized that they wouldn't come apart even out of the car - soaking in penetrant, diesel, ATF, cleaners, heating them up...etc. not sure what that's all about but in those cases replacement is the only cure.

once you get it figured out make sure you change the oil often.

#6 screwbaru2

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 05:12 PM

[quote name='grossgary']
some old guy told me to run kerosene in place of the oil for 2 minutes, "used to do that all the time, you wouldn't believe how much came out of those engines". how much what, metal? yeah i'll pass on that one!


I run 1 quart of kerosene for a few minutes before every oil change. I've done this to every car I've owned since I was a teenager (long ago). Haven't had a stuck lifter in anything yet. Good advice from my father.

#7 BoostedBalls

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:53 PM

If there is pinging, I would check your timing belts. I leave the covers off so I can see at a glance if there is anything out of the ordinary, ie: oily belt, bad tensioner, bad idlers, etc.

The knock sensor is probably not the issue because if your sensor was bad, you would likely have a CEL and the timing would be way retarded and you would lack power. You don't want to drive without it on the EJ series engines because timing will be retarded and gas milage would be crap. The EA series engines don't seem to care. I ran the snot out of mine at 20psi many times with no damage to the engine.

The knock sensor MUST have a good ground on the EJ. If your block is too greasy to get a good ground- run a wire between the bolt and the sensor and ground it under the throttle linkage with another ring terminal. (5/16")

If your engine has a lot of miles on it, you could use some water injection. If it's naturally aspirated, you could simply hook a windshield washer pump to a single nitrous nozzle with .040" jet right upstream of the throttlebody. Downstream of the TB is stupid because you will be sucking the bottle dry at idle. Water/meth injection will clean your carbon like nothing else. It's easy enough to install a fitting in the side of your windshield washer tank and run a beefy inline pump right to the nitrous nozzle. Activate with momentary switch or throttle switch. The windshield washer fluid is water and methanol mix. The colder the mix ,say -30F and below, is the good stuff. This will cool your intake temps and clean your engine at the same time. It will also let the timing advance farther before you reach detonation, which = more power and fuel economy.

stay away from the fluid that has all kinds of bug and tar remover in it. The cheap blue stuff is the best.

#8 s'ko

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:40 AM

If there is pinging, I would check your timing belts. I leave the covers off so I can see at a glance if there is anything out of the ordinary, ie: oily belt, bad tensioner, bad idlers, etc.

The knock sensor is probably not the issue because if your sensor was bad, you would likely have a CEL and the timing would be way retarded and you would lack power. You don't want to drive without it on the EJ series engines because timing will be retarded and gas milage would be crap. The EA series engines don't seem to care. I ran the snot out of mine at 20psi many times with no damage to the engine.

The knock sensor MUST have a good ground on the EJ. If your block is too greasy to get a good ground- run a wire between the bolt and the sensor and ground it under the throttle linkage with another ring terminal. (5/16")

If your engine has a lot of miles on it, you could use some water injection. If it's naturally aspirated, you could simply hook a windshield washer pump to a single nitrous nozzle with .040" jet right upstream of the throttlebody. Downstream of the TB is stupid because you will be sucking the bottle dry at idle. Water/meth injection will clean your carbon like nothing else. It's easy enough to install a fitting in the side of your windshield washer tank and run a beefy inline pump right to the nitrous nozzle. Activate with momentary switch or throttle switch. The windshield washer fluid is water and methanol mix. The colder the mix ,say -30F and below, is the good stuff. This will cool your intake temps and clean your engine at the same time. It will also let the timing advance farther before you reach detonation, which = more power and fuel economy.

stay away from the fluid that has all kinds of bug and tar remover in it. The cheap blue stuff is the best.


interesting you mention this. I just found this site.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html on really detailed instructions for a DIY water meth injector. also includes a parts list and where to get it.:headbang:

#9 nipper

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:55 AM

interesting you mention this. I just found this site.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html on really detailed instructions for a DIY water meth injector. also includes a parts list and where to get it.:headbang:


i think you mean water methanol injection.

A "detailed instructions for a DIY water meth injector" in this day and age sounds wrong on so many levels.


nipper

#10 grossgary

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:04 AM

A "detailed instructions for a DIY water meth injector" in this day and age sounds wrong on so many levels.

WOW, he went there!

#11 s'ko

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:28 AM

i think you mean water methanol injection.

A "detailed instructions for a DIY water meth injector" in this day and age sounds wrong on so many levels.


nipper


you mean it's methanol and not methamphetimines....

darn. I was hoping to have my car lose some weight and get those cool dark circles around it's headlights.. you know like reverse angel eyes.
;)

#12 aircraft engineer

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:51 AM

If the knock sensor starts "talking" it will turn on the P0325 CEL. It would take pretty much a "tuned click" to do it (it's apparently "frequency tuned" to the "ping sound")

IF the knock sensor doesn't have a good ground, it will turn on the light (a complete circuit with about 50k ohms is require for a "go signal" otherwise the ECU reads "open circuit". A "short" is just as bad - that feeds to the ECU as well. I tried both conditions on my car, but didn't try the "ultimate deception" - a 50k-ohm resistor to ground. that would eliminated the knock sensor but also eliminate and "engine protection" arising from the knock as well)

A rod knock would probably do it, though

#13 BoostedBalls

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 08:50 PM

WOW, he went there!


Yeah, if you get pulled over for speeding, I wouldn't recommend telling the cop that you were speeding because of your meth injector.

#14 nipper

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 09:55 PM

you mean it's methanol and not methamphetimines....

darn. I was hoping to have my car lose some weight and get those cool dark circles around it's headlights.. you know like reverse angel eyes.
;)

DARN IT now i have to clean my computer sreen


:clap:

nipper

#15 aircraft engineer

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:30 PM

sure am glad i didn't have the beer until AFTER I read that :grin:

#16 s'ko

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 12:37 AM

Yeah, if you get pulled over for speeding, I wouldn't recommend telling the cop that you were speeding because of your meth injector.


NICE....:drunk:




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