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Removing EA71 Heads


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Crabman

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:28 AM

Hey all,

Glad the board is back up and running. Good work to everyone involved!

I have to do some work on the heads of my '79 Brat, and I'm looking to save a little time and cut some corners. I'm wondering, does anyone know:

Is it possible to pull these heads off and on without removing the engine from the bay?

Looks like it might be doable, but I want to find out first, before I commit to a certain strategy.

All advice and suggestions are welcome. Thanks Much,
Crabman

#2 fshnidiot

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:09 PM

I'm not sure if they did this on the older Subies but my 81 hatch had 2 holes in the frame by the heads that gave access to the heads from in the wheel wells that allowed me to pull them with the block still in the car. Look for 2 black rubber plugs on the inside of the frame rails on each side of the engine. If not you might be able to undo the motor mounts and lift the motor and tranny enough to get the room you need without pulling the motor.:)Frank

#3 Crabman

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Frank. I'm going to look for those holes tonight.

I'm not sure if they did this on the older Subies but my 81 hatch had 2 holes in the frame by the heads that gave access to the heads from in the wheel wells that allowed me to pull them with the block still in the car. Look for 2 black rubber plugs on the inside of the frame rails on each side of the engine. If not you might be able to undo the motor mounts and lift the motor and tranny enough to get the room you need without pulling the motor.:)Frank



#4 Leeroy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 05:25 AM

My Dad and I removed and replaced the heads of my 78 wagon (It has an EA81) without removing the engine about five years ago.

Yes you need to lift the engine as far as it will go and the battery tray needed some minor modification with a hammer to allow room, but it is achieveable. There is a bit of stuffing around though and if I remember correctly a lot of swearing about Japanese cars being too small for Aussie hands to work on by my Dad!

#5 Zefy

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 05:38 PM

save yourself the hassle of messing around with trying to do it with the engine in the car...

its SO easy to take this engine out. i've done it by my self without a hoist in under 1.5 hours.

then you can actually get in there and have a look.

#6 bratman18

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:52 PM

save yourself the hassle of messing around with trying to do it with the engine in the car...

its SO easy to take this engine out. i've done it by my self without a hoist in under 1.5 hours.

then you can actually get in there and have a look.


I completely agree I pulled my motor in my brat in 1 to 1.5 hours by myself and it makes it so much easier to work on the motor!

#7 moosens

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:54 PM

I want to find out first, before I commit to a certain strategy


Sometimes I spend more time worrying about which way to go about something than the time it would take to just get it going. As I get older I'm doing all I can to avoid "mind time" and just swim forward thru the tide.

Like the others have said,just take it out and go at it cleanly. You'll certainly appreciate it and I'm pretty sure you'll find yourself giving it more attention that way.

Things to consider: with engine out you can get to the seals you can't with the engine in. - rear crank - diff. output shaft seals - shifter bushings - etc. and maybe a new clutch and fresh surfaced pressure plate.

Just a thought. Good luck with it.

#8 Crabman

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 09:24 PM

Thanks for all the advice. I bet you fellas would appreciate a little bit of background info. You may understand my situation better. Its actually really humorous. But this all started out with a bad water pump. Whch I had a spare for. So I go to replace it, and the top two bolts break off into the water pipe on top of the engine.

Tried to extract them, but they were so corroded and brittle, it was impossibe. This bums me out for a little while, before I realize I have a spare water pipe too. And I realize to replace that, I just have to take the intake manifold off in order to get to it.

Out of the six bolts, that hold on the intake manifold, three break off into the heads. I've extracted bolts before. I know how to do it. I tried with the patience and skill of a surgeon. These damn bolts are fused in the heads, rendering them useless.

But I've got spare heads too, from a JDM EA71. I just dropped them off at the machine shop tonight. Only thing I am worried about is the JDM heads have only one inlet for the air suction system, where as my original set of heads have four. I just plan to plug that one hole and see how she runs.

You know, she's my daily driver, and I just want to get her back on the road. I have pulled the engine before, I just replaced the clutch, rear seal, and pressure plate a little while ago. I don't have a hoist, though I could borrow one. I have a wife and very young children that consume a lot of my time.

If I can do it quicker without removing the engine, I have to go that route. But I do appreciate all of the advice.

I'll let everyone know how it goes:D

#9 s'ko

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:03 PM

Thanks for all the advice. I bet you fellas would appreciate a little bit of background info. You may understand my situation better. Its actually really humorous. But this all started out with a bad water pump. Whch I had a spare for. So I go to replace it, and the top two bolts break off into the water pipe on top of the engine.

Tried to extract them, but they were so corroded and brittle, it was impossibe. This bums me out for a little while, before I realize I have a spare water pipe too. And I realize to replace that, I just have to take the intake manifold off in order to get to it.

Out of the six bolts, that hold on the intake manifold, three break off into the heads. I've extracted bolts before. I know how to do it. I tried with the patience and skill of a surgeon. These damn bolts are fused in the heads, rendering them useless.

But I've got spare heads too, from a JDM EA71. I just dropped them off at the machine shop tonight. Only thing I am worried about is the JDM heads have only one inlet for the air suction system, where as my original set of heads have four. I just plan to plug that one hole and see how she runs.

You know, she's my daily driver, and I just want to get her back on the road. I have pulled the engine before, I just replaced the clutch, rear seal, and pressure plate a little while ago. I don't have a hoist, though I could borrow one. I have a wife and very young children that consume a lot of my time.

If I can do it quicker without removing the engine, I have to go that route. But I do appreciate all of the advice.

I'll let everyone know how it goes:D


good to see you are making good progress.

BTW, feed me beer and food and I will help you out with the repair
:popcorn::drunk:
bw

#10 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 11:18 AM

Did you make sure those JDM ea71 heads weren't from an ea71 fat-case? Though now that I think about it, I am pretty sure fatcase heads will bolt on to an older style ea71...

BTW, be forewarned about the head studs... I have gone thru 2 or 3 ea71 engines where the head studs were so well siezed into the block that they broke off. (sad times) It is POSSIBLE to carefully clean the decks with the studs still in there, but I always worry about having to re-do headgaskets down the road.

good luck
-Mike


Thanks for all the advice. I bet you fellas would appreciate a little bit of background info. You may understand my situation better. Its actually really humorous. But this all started out with a bad water pump. Whch I had a spare for. So I go to replace it, and the top two bolts break off into the water pipe on top of the engine.

Tried to extract them, but they were so corroded and brittle, it was impossibe. This bums me out for a little while, before I realize I have a spare water pipe too. And I realize to replace that, I just have to take the intake manifold off in order to get to it.

Out of the six bolts, that hold on the intake manifold, three break off into the heads. I've extracted bolts before. I know how to do it. I tried with the patience and skill of a surgeon. These damn bolts are fused in the heads, rendering them useless.

But I've got spare heads too, from a JDM EA71. I just dropped them off at the machine shop tonight. Only thing I am worried about is the JDM heads have only one inlet for the air suction system, where as my original set of heads have four. I just plan to plug that one hole and see how she runs.

You know, she's my daily driver, and I just want to get her back on the road. I have pulled the engine before, I just replaced the clutch, rear seal, and pressure plate a little while ago. I don't have a hoist, though I could borrow one. I have a wife and very young children that consume a lot of my time.

If I can do it quicker without removing the engine, I have to go that route. But I do appreciate all of the advice.

I'll let everyone know how it goes:D



#11 Crabman

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 12:01 PM

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the info. Those heads actually are from a JDM fatcase, but they have mated perfectly with my EA71 thin case. Only difference I am worried about is the air injection system, which is part of emission control. On my original EA71, the heads were tapped at each intake valve for the air injection system. On my JDM heads only the right side cylinder no. 3 has the air injection port.

I am just planning on plugging that hole before I run it. But if anyone has the JDM, or 1-port air injection set up, I'd love to buy it off you. Undoubtedly it would help with smog.

BTW Mike. Everyone who said to take the engine out was right. Those studs were so crudded up with gunk, there was no way those heads were going to come off any other way. I'm so glad I took it out. S'ko and I got her cleaned up real good, I am going to update the thread with pictures of it before I put it back in. Hey and one more thing, have you got any decent EA71 heads that you don't need? I've been going through my inventory, I have everything I need to put together a 'spare' EA71, except a decent set of heads.

Thanks all,
Tony

#12 Kostamojen

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 08:04 PM

Do you mean the air injection system?

I have one from the EA63 i'm not going to use, but I'd just plug the holes if I were you.

#13 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 01:16 AM

Right the reason I was asking about the "fatcase" thing with the heads is because the fact that you only have 1 AI port is not a result of them being JDM...(I didn't know if you were blaming it on that or not) The fact is that all fatcases had only 1 AI port because they had changed to the same setup that the EA81's came with.
I do have a "fatcase" manifold... but nothing else matches up unless you convert everything to the modern setup. (newer ones dont have that vacuum distribution bulls**t bolted onto the front of the manifold where the carb is, etc) And also I believe the fatcase manifold has the spots for the low and high speed duty solenoids.

Long story short, some emission control things would have to be capped off.

I do have a plethora of (early) ea71 heads lying around. Send me a PM if you want a set and I'll dig two out of storage for ya

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the info. Those heads actually are from a JDM fatcase, but they have mated perfectly with my EA71 thin case. Only difference I am worried about is the air injection system, which is part of emission control. On my original EA71, the heads were tapped at each intake valve for the air injection system. On my JDM heads only the right side cylinder no. 3 has the air injection port.

I am just planning on plugging that hole before I run it. But if anyone has the JDM, or 1-port air injection set up, I'd love to buy it off you. Undoubtedly it would help with smog.

BTW Mike. Everyone who said to take the engine out was right. Those studs were so crudded up with gunk, there was no way those heads were going to come off any other way. I'm so glad I took it out. S'ko and I got her cleaned up real good, I am going to update the thread with pictures of it before I put it back in. Hey and one more thing, have you got any decent EA71 heads that you don't need? I've been going through my inventory, I have everything I need to put together a 'spare' EA71, except a decent set of heads.

Thanks all,
Tony



#14 Crabman

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:48 AM

Hey Mike,

I was assuming that the one AI port was because they were JDM. Since JDM stuff normally has less emission stuff, this just made since to me (1 is less than 4).

So for clarification let me get this straight:

1. EA81 engines only have one AI port.
2. And this AI port is connected to the the intake manifold? Or the air filter? My original AIS connects to the air filter.

I searched the forums and have gotten some conflicting info on how important an AIS is for passing emissions. As of right now, my plan is to plug the port and give it a try. I found a cheap and decent oil plug that has the right thread pitch at rock auto. It should work perfectly with the right crush washer. If anyone wants the part number, just let me know. If I can't get her to pass smog, I'll have to rethink my whole strategy.

Mike - I sent you a PM about the heads. My plan has always been to have one EA71 to pass smog, and one that has been modified, so that I can keep up with Los Angeles traffic :lol:. As of right now, I am weighing my options between building two different engines. One would be a modified EA71 with a hot cam and a weber. I would need heads for those. The other would be to rebuild this EA71/EA63 hybrid that I picked up in the desert. Only probelm with the latter is that the EA63 heads have been modified to accept dual weber 48 IDAs, which would be completely bad-rump roast, but I can't find them used for less than $800 a set.

Other than that, engine should go in this weekend. Thanks for your help everyone. Cheers, Crabman.

#15 Crabman

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 12:51 AM

I just wanted to stick a couple of pics up, since I got it looking so good!
Posted Image

Turned into much more than replacing heads. Cleaned it up, little paint here and there. Stuck a new oil pump, water pump, and alternator on. Wish I had time to go over the whole car like this.

#16 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:46 AM

Well I guess I shoulden't have called it an AI port to add confusion. On the older ea71's yes the 4 ports were for the AI system, which simply added extra oxygen to the exhaust ports to burn the HC and CO directly after it came out of the combustion chamber, and was hot enough to have the best chance of reacting. Early ea71's did not have catalyitic convertors, so this was "as good as it gets". (they did haave a premuffler, but that was simply adding a little bit of pressure to the exhaust system to "keep things hot")

On the later ea71 (fatcases), they went down to just the 1 port, in the same spot and all that, but they didnt use it for the AI system. That single port became the new supply tube for the EGR valve (the older ea71 had a long EGR tube that ran around the backside of the engine to the bottom of a cylinder head) Since the new ea71's were now catalytic convertor-equipped, the AI system was electronically controlled, and used 1 really BIG tube. That later AI tube was attached to a vacuum controlled valve on the backside of the engine (pass side on 82 and earlier, driverside on 83 and later) that went down to only one exhaust port flange. The introduction of oxygen was further from the port in this fashion, but because the exhaust gasses were going through a cataliytic convertor down the line, they would be heated up again at that point and the catalytic convertor would promote the chemical reaction.

its hard to explain without pictures... basically that port changed functions when they switched down to only 1

-Mike

#17 Crabman

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:00 AM

On the later ea71 (fatcases), they went down to just the 1 port, in the same spot and all that, but they didnt use it for the AI system. That single port became the new supply tube for the EGR valve (the older ea71 had a long EGR tube that ran around the backside of the engine to the bottom of a cylinder head)


Mike, thanks for the explanation. Only thing is that those fat case heads I have with the one "AI" port, actually have the EGR port on the back side of the head too. So I'm pretty sure that's not what the topside port is for.

As for now, I think my only option is to plug that top port, get her tuned up real well, keep my fingers crossed, and hope she passes smog. If she doesn't, it'll have to be Plan B, which hasn't really formed yet.

#18 s'ko

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 01:21 PM

Mike, thanks for the explanation. Only thing is that those fat case heads I have with the one "AI" port, actually have the EGR port on the back side of the head too. So I'm pretty sure that's not what the topside port is for.

As for now, I think my only option is to plug that top port, get her tuned up real well, keep my fingers crossed, and hope she passes smog. If she doesn't, it'll have to be Plan B, which hasn't really formed yet.


PLAN B is to take that EJ I have in my garage and slap it into the BRAT. But this is essentially a gender change cause your gonna be straping some big brass balls to it. You have to stop referring to the BRAT with female pronouns.:grin:

Have harness and ECU will travel.... especially since you are 5 mins away.
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#19 Kostamojen

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 08:45 PM

I just wanted to stick a couple of pics up, since I got it looking so good!
Posted Image

Turned into much more than replacing heads. Cleaned it up, little paint here and there. Stuck a new oil pump, water pump, and alternator on. Wish I had time to go over the whole car like this.

Looks great! :banana:

Thats what i'm going for too, cleaning it up like that. Although I think i'm going to paint the valve covers red (the yellow valve covers I did before on the 78 wagon turned out great!)




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