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Weber installed: Insanely fast "idle"


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27 replies to this topic

#1 Greenley

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:56 AM

:horse: 84 GL Wagon EA81 4WD

After the hydrolock from the intake manifold installation, and siphoning coolant from the bores, and verifying spark, fuel, and compression.. i finally got it to fire.

Quickly revved to 4k RPM (within a second) with no sign of slowing down, before i shut it off.
The idle speed screw and the mixture screw are adjusted to recommended setup specification (1.5 in and 2 out, respectively).

Does this sound like throttle linkage binding, or shall i investigate elsewhere:confused:

Edited by Greenley, 15 December 2008 - 03:02 AM.
x


#2 TomRhere

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:54 AM

Check to see if the carb linkage is indeed setting against the idle speed screw, or on the fast-idle screw if choke is set. If that's good, check for missing or cracked vacuum lines.

With the choke set, and a major vac leak somewhere, the engine will definetly go ballistic on the revs. Had an '84 BRAT that did that when I 1st got it. Found the large vac hose to the Anti-Afterburn valve had split open, was all better after replacing that hose.

#3 subiemech85

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 12:13 PM

BTDT: 1. vac. hose off, was for gauge 2. throttle return spring

#4 Skip

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:26 PM

After following Tom's advise
and if all seems normal

Look down the bore and verify the secondary
throttle plate is closed.

#5 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:28 PM

Make sure you have slack on the throttle cable too.

I fought this problem with my weber install and realized the adapter I made for the throttle cable put too much tension on the cable and it wouldnt allow it to fully release.

I would actually disconnect the throttle cable and tune the carburator... then reconnect the cable and if the idle changes create more slack.

#6 Greenley

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 06:38 PM

No major vaccum leaks

Created adequate slack in the throttle cable

The carb linkage is not quite setting against the idle speed screw with it turned all the way in. A good 1/4 inch away.
Edit: It now looks good, didn't engage the choke @ first.

Secondary throttle valve is NOT closing. Seems like the "linkage" needs to be adjusted?

Edited by Greenley, 15 December 2008 - 07:59 PM.


#7 Durania

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 06:57 PM

I had the same problem in mine when I first got it, my main reason for hating the weber. The secondary would get stuck open and cause it to rev like it was being held to the floor. What you need to check is that hinge where the two barrels join is in the up position. Of course, yours may differ, this was the problem that I had on mine.

Here is a picture for reference.

Posted Image

#8 Greenley

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 07:18 PM

The linkage that controls the secondary on mine is @ a more horizontal position than others i've seen in pictures.
It doesn't seem to allow the secondary to close all the way like that

What you need to check is that hinge where the two barrels join is in the up position


Is this what you are referring to as the "hinge"... Posted Image
It obviously needs to be in the up position, like yours is, for the secondary to close, but mine will not go that far.
I take it that's what your spring is for!?

Mine in closed secondary position:Posted Image

There's obviously something wrong here.

Edited by Greenley, 15 December 2008 - 08:20 PM.


#9 Durania

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 08:23 PM

You are correct. Just push up on it with your finger and it should smooth out.

Yes, that is why I kept the spring on it. Every now and then the thing would open up when I pushed the gas pedal too much. Then I would just hop out of the car and push it back up.

#10 Greenley

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:37 PM

verify the secondary
throttle plate is closed.


I can only verify that the secondary throttle plate does not close completely.

There's no way to adjust that from the outside. Anyone else ever dealt with this?

:confused:

Edited by Greenley, 16 December 2008 - 12:13 AM.


#11 Greenley

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:01 AM

A shameless i can't sleep because this is gettin' to me bump

:(

#12 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:02 AM

If the throttle plate wont close something must be keeping it open. Work from there, make sure nothin is jammed in the bore or wedged in the linkage, then check for binding and see if you can get it to close. If it doesnt move at all spray it with PB blaster and it should loosen up.
-Bill

#13 TomRhere

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:04 AM

The linkage that controls the secondary on mine is @ a more horizontal position than others i've seen in pictures.
It doesn't seem to allow the secondary to close all the way like that


Is this what you are referring to as the "hinge"... Posted Image
It obviously needs to be in the up position, like yours is, for the secondary to close, but mine will not go that far.
I take it that's what your spring is for!?

Mine in closed secondary position:Posted Image

There's obviously something wrong here.


From the larger pic, it looks like the bellcrank for the cable attachment is spaced out on the throttleshaft, but it's hard to say. If it's not, it can bind on the choke rod you can see right at the front of the bellcrank, where the barrel on the end of the throttle cable attaches.

Speaking of that barrel end, it looks abit askew to me, so maybe it is binding against the choke rod. Look that area over real good.

#14 Skip

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:04 PM

Since I'm the one that originally suggested this
and Sir Greenly is loosing sleep....

I figured I'd look into it a bit so I
grabbed one of my Weber 32/36s
off the shelf and had a look.

The Beast may have it nailed with an obstruction in the bore
or
the secondary throttle plate may not be centered.

In the below picture you will see the top is the correct
position, the bottom is your approx position.

To simulate your position I placed a spacer in the bore.
The thickness of this spacer is 0.010 "
Yes 10 thousands of an inch.

You may want to remove the carb to check for these problems.
Hope this helps you get some sleep.

Posted Image

#15 Skip

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:25 PM

Upon further review
it appears you are missing the spring.
that pulls the bell crank up and
closes the secondary.

I do not see this spring in your picture
Posted Image
Without it fitted I could place the secondary at any position
even when the primary was closed.

#16 monstaru

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:23 PM

this is a rebuilt carb,so it may just be tight.didyou check to make sure it closed all the way befor eyou put it on,worked the linkage and what not to insure that it was moving open and closed without your help?

the butterfly might be a bit off.loosent the screws,do not take all the way out,and play with it that way.obviously not on the car.i have seen it where the butterfly is not seated right and will not close all the way.

i never noticed it when it was here,but i did not run it either.but i worked the linkage plenty of times.the butterfly is all i can think of.cheers, brian

#17 Greenley

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:19 PM

From the larger pic, it looks like the bellcrank for the cable attachment is spaced out on the throttleshaft, but it's hard to say. If it's not, it can bind on the choke rod you can see right at the front of the bellcrank, where the barrel on the end of the throttle cable attaches.

Speaking of that barrel end, it looks abit askew to me, so maybe it is binding against the choke rod. Look that area over real good.


It is spaced out with a washer off the hitachi, this was to rule out binding on the choke rod. All is clear there.

... I do not see this spring in your picture


Good observation, but the spring installed did not help.:)

To simulate your position I placed a spacer in the bore.
The thickness of this spacer is 0.010 "
Yes 10 thousands of an inch


I would say that is spot on.
I have the carb off, sitting on my kitchen table.
The maximum closing stroke leaves about a .010-ish" gap.
I would assume that the secondary throttle plate needs to close off the venturi(?) just as efficiently as the primary side does.
Am i correct in this reasoning?

If that's the case, i think i may have to file a very small amount off of the sides of the plate, because it is rubbing (i can see the mark).

Loosening the two screws and adjusting it doesn't seem to help close.

Posted Image

Geez, i didn't think i'd have to actually learn about the thing when i installed it.:rolleyes:

#18 monstaru

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:53 PM

flip it around......it might help.try that.i did not think you would have to do any work either.but you will be better off from learning as well.cheers, brian

#19 Greenley

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 12:44 AM

flip it around......it might help.try that.i did not think you would have to do any work either.but you will be better off from learning as well.cheers, brian


I don't think the carb had a very pleasant trip in the mail.
If it wasn't for the good packing, it may have been worse :dead:
I thought about flipping it, because it does seal REAL nicely the other way around.
It just wasn't making much sense as to how the linkage would work with it reversed.

#20 monstaru

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 01:45 AM

flip it,if it fits the other way around... flip it
generally they fit only one way.....cheers, brian

#21 Greenley

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 04:51 PM

Backed the screws that hold the throttle plate to the shaft completely out, took the plate out and flipped it 180 degrees. It seals like a champ.

I'm gonna bolt it back on to the manifold in a few, if it doesn't work i'm gonna punt the rocksucker down the street!

#22 monstaru

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:57 PM

don't punt it.......:mad:if it seals differently then i am betting you got her licked.......should do the trick.sorry your having troubles with it.i just never got around to mounting it as it was going on an ej that i do not have timing covers for..... so i never got around to starting anything up with it.

i am hopin that switcharoo is your demon.cheers, brian

#23 Greenley

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:40 PM

It's all good in the hood.:)

Mounted her up, fired it up and it chugged like a tractor like it's supposed to!

STOKED! :banana:

Thank you for all your help and ideas!

Edited by Greenley, 17 December 2008 - 09:18 PM.


#24 bratman18

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:42 PM

It's all good in the hood.:)

Mounted her up, fired it up and it chugged like a tractor like it's supposed to!

STOKED! :banana:


Congrats!! Glad you got it working!:banana:

#25 Skip

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:07 PM

glad you got it fixed, you are welcome for all the help and ideas??


Try it without the spring that was missing
and let us know what happens

on the chance someone else forgets it.




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