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New Timing Belt Delivered: "Important Information Inclosed"!?!


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17 replies to this topic

#1 211

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:11 PM

Ordered a timing belt kit from ebay [PCI timing belt set PN TS26307 for 16v SOHC 2000-2003].

Everything looks great except there's a document enclosed that says:

"Caution"

It is important that you read the below caution information, very important!
Severe engine damage can result from simple mistakes.


Subaru has two different Timing Belts on the original engines during the years 2000 and later using the B304 (13028-AA181) and the B307 (13028-AA21B) part numbers. They are both the same length and width and appear identical but, they actually do not have the same tooth design. This tooth design difference is not easily recognized. It is very important, as usual on all applications, to fit the Timing Belt to the Cam Sprocket teeth (wrap it all the way around) and look very close at the fit. Use a light source behind the fit to help with this inspection process. It is the responsibility of the installer to install the correct part. The Timing Belt should fit perfectly. If you have any doubt, check the other part number fit. You will be able to see the obvious difference while they are very similar.


This is NOT cool! So it sounds like there's no way of knowing untill I have the whole thing torn apart. If I have the wrong belt I'm SOL!
According to the contents list on the box it's a 223 tooth belt.

This is for a 2000 OBW non-LTD

#2 svxpert

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:09 AM

<<This is NOT cool! So it sounds like there's no way of knowing untill I have the whole thing torn apart. If I have the wrong belt I'm SOL!
According to the contents list on the box it's a 223 tooth belt.>>

thats why its so much easier to buy a timing belt from Subaru. give them your vin and they can give you the correct part number at least for the belt

#3 nipper

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:26 AM

<<This is NOT cool! So it sounds like there's no way of knowing untill I have the whole thing torn apart. If I have the wrong belt I'm SOL!
According to the contents list on the box it's a 223 tooth belt.>>

thats why its so much easier to buy a timing belt from Subaru. give them your vin and they can give you the correct part number at least for the belt



Thats why i dont recomend ebay for a lot of things.

nipper

#4 grossgary

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:22 AM

take it to Subaru and compare the two belts they have to yours. looks like they even gave you the two differing phone numbers.

#5 bheinen74

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:24 AM

ebay= universal fits all, made in china to fit anything. NOT. that sucks.

#6 hohieu

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:44 PM

Ok, here's some helpful info.:

If the 4th digit in your VIN is "G," use B304 (13028-AA181).

If the 4th digit of your VIN is "B," use B307 (13028-AA21B).

The only difference between the two belts is the tooth profile, B304 has "modified curvilinear (III)" teeth while the B307 belt belt has "curvilinear" teeth.

#7 bheinen74

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:47 PM

what happens down the road when the engines are pulled and go into a different model soob. the vin won't even be known, why why why why does subaru do this. no more legos for you.

Ok, here's some helpful info.:

If the 4th digit in your VIN is "G," use B304 (13028-AA181).

If the 4th digit of your VIN is "B," use B307 (13028-AA21B).

The only difference between the two belts is the tooth profile, B304 has "modified curvilinear (III)" teeth while the B307 belt belt has "curvilinear" teeth.



#8 grossgary

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:56 PM

does anyone know which belts fit which vehicles? it would be nice to know what the actual difference is...years, makes, models, etc?

#9 hohieu

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:34 PM

This info., gathered from www.gates.com, applies to 2.5L SOHC Phase II engines:

1999- Foresters & Imprezas use the 304 belt.

2000- Legacies use the 307 belt.

2000- Outbacks will use either the 304 or 307 belt.

#10 211

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:03 PM

Ok, here's some helpful info.:

If the 4th digit in your VIN is "G," use B304 (13028-AA181).

If the 4th digit of your VIN is "B," use B307 (13028-AA21B).

The only difference between the two belts is the tooth profile, B304 has "modified curvilinear (III)" teeth while the B307 belt belt has "curvilinear" teeth.


If this is true then I think I'm okay.
According to PCI's part catalog the timing belt in the kit I have is a B307 which is the appropriate belt for my fourth digit VIN letter "B".

I'll call the dealer this afternoon and verify.

#11 211

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:23 PM

This info., gathered from www.gates.com, applies to 2.5L SOHC Phase II engines:

1999- Foresters & Imprezas use the 304 belt.

2000- Legacies use the 307 belt.

2000- Outbacks will use either the 304 or 307 belt.


Hmmm... that's weird then. I just got off the phone w/ Walker's Renton Subaru (I.E. www.1stsubaru.com) I asked for a timing belt part number for a 2000 OBW and he said 13028-AA21B.
I then asked if there were two different belt options for that year range (only difference being tooth profile). He said, it's based on the build date of the engine. Feb '99 - Feb '04 all call for the same 13028-AA21B number. After Feb '04 there's two options but that 'AA21B part is still available through till '06. I did not ask what the "optional" part number was.

He said unless somthing weird happened to my engine, it's "99.9% probable" that the part number mentioned above is the correct one. Which is the one that came in my kit.

Cross my fingers though

*EDIT*

Called my local subaru dealer (Dewey Griffin). They gave me the same part number Walker's gave me. I asked them to cross reference the other 13028-AA181 part number and they didn't have a match. I told them the story how I have two different part number options and he said, "I dont know what that second part number is but the number you need for that year is 'AA21B.

Edited by 211, 16 December 2008 - 03:21 PM.


#12 grossgary

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:45 PM

this might come down to not much of anything. disclaimers like this are very common anywhere and everywhere. it's more of a CYA than it is actual useful information. Subaru probably even has their own, you just ignore or don't see them. in the world of lawsuits and stupid consumers, it's easier for companies to make blanket statements even if they aren't all that relevant.

#13 hohieu

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:16 PM

Glad you got it sorted out, and now knowing you have all the correct parts, you should be ready to roll.

If you have the original engine in your car, then you were were fine by checking your VIN#. Gates lists both the 304 & 307 belts for outbacks 2000 and beyond. The information you received from your dealer is further clarification and confirmation from Subaru.

He said, it's based on the build date of the engine. Feb '99 - Feb '04 all call for the same 13028-AA21B number. After Feb '04 there's two options but that 'AA21B part is still available through till '06. I did not ask what the "optional" part number was.


Ok, but this info. is specific to Outbacks and not to 2.5 SOHC engines. In other words, not all 2.5 SOHC engines built between 2/1999 and 2/2004 use the 307 belt (13028AA21B).

For example, my 1999 Forester with the 2.5 SOHC Phase II engine uses the 304 belt. In fact, all Foresters fitted with the Phase II 2.5L engine to this point use the 304 belt (13028AA181, superseded by 13028AA230).

So the lesson: Definitely check your VIN# if you own an Outback with the 2.5 SOHC engine.

#14 211

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:37 PM


Ok, but this info. is specific to Outbacks and not to 2.5 SOHC engines. In other words, not all 2.5 SOHC engines built between 2/1999 and 2/2004 use the 307 belt (13028AA21B).

For example, my 1999 Forester with the 2.5 SOHC Phase II engine uses the 304 belt. In fact, all Foresters fitted with the Phase II 2.5L engine to this point use the 304 belt (13028AA181, superseded by 13028AA230).

So the lesson: Definitely check your VIN# if you own an Outback with the 2.5 SOHC engine.


That may be why my local dealer couldn't find a match for the AA181...

I guess the key takeaway here is that my VIN has a "B" in the 4th digit, the timing belt 13028-AA21B is for my car which is a 2000 Outback.

Wheuw! How such a tiny piece of disclaimer paper could cause such a ruckus!?!

#15 davebugs

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:41 PM

This info., gathered from www.gates.com, applies to 2.5L SOHC Phase II engines:

1999- Foresters & Imprezas use the 304 belt.

2000- Legacies use the 307 belt.

2000- Outbacks will use either the 304 or 307 belt.



I can confirm that a 99 Forester 2.5 SOHC takes a 304 and a 2000 2.5 SOHC takes a 307. When I recently installed the Legacy longblock into the Forester I was having difficulty getting the timing belt to fit before I finally called to see if they were the same and they weren't. By quick look the 307 is about 1/2 inch longer. Couldn't get the 304 on all the pulleys. I was getting VERY frustrated.

BTW it's the only part that I noticed that was different. I did not swap cam pulleys, etc - left them all in place (actually new idlers and tensioner).

For all I know if the cam sprockets were swapped the 304 may have worked.

Gaskets(cam, crank, intake, exhaust), WP, plugs were all the same.

I use Dayco belts. I didn't notice anything different about the belts (shape of the lugs) other than the lenght. I wasn't looking for lug difference however.

#16 Bserk

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:53 PM

Not exactly relevant to this discussion, but just so you know it isnt just Subaru that pulls these tricks. VG30 Nissan engines from inception through about 1993, used a 60,000 mile belt with 'square' type cogs. In or around 93, depending on the model, they switched to a 100,000 mile 'rounded' type cog. (I suspect, but have no evidence, that the design difference with Subaru is the same, and it may well all be because of emission regulations requiring a 'no maintenance until 100k' demand from the great old US government. Over the years, Ive run into this problem a few times, when an engine had been replaced, etc.. Aggravating? Yes. But personally I would not blame Subaru (or Nissan) for these issues.

#17 nipper

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 08:01 PM

Not exactly relevant to this discussion, but just so you know it isnt just Subaru that pulls these tricks. VG30 Nissan engines from inception through about 1993, used a 60,000 mile belt with 'square' type cogs. In or around 93, depending on the model, they switched to a 100,000 mile 'rounded' type cog. (I suspect, but have no evidence, that the design difference with Subaru is the same, and it may well all be because of emission regulations requiring a 'no maintenance until 100k' demand from the great old US government. Over the years, Ive run into this problem a few times, when an engine had been replaced, etc.. Aggravating? Yes. But personally I would not blame Subaru (or Nissan) for these issues.



Lets not forget how VW (used to) want to know the exact month your car was made to get parts.

Engineering changes are a pain in the but, from the person who used to make those changes, its a fact of life.

nipper

#18 hohieu

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:05 PM

I can confirm that a 99 Forester 2.5 SOHC takes a 304 and a 2000 2.5 SOHC takes a 307. When I recently installed the Legacy longblock into the Forester I was having difficulty getting the timing belt to fit before I finally called to see if they were the same and they weren't. By quick look the 307 is about 1/2 inch longer. Couldn't get the 304 on all the pulleys. I was getting VERY frustrated.


Sounds like a nightmare. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for the differences as both the 304 and the 307 belts are rated for 105k-mile intervals.

But the differences are applicable only to Legacies & Outbacks, hence these variations do not necessarily arise between a 1999 2.5 SOHC and a 2000 2.5 SOHC. In your case the difference was between your Forester's original SOHC long block and the replacement SOHC Legacy long block. In other words, an long block from a 2000 Forester would have used the same 304 belt as your 1999 Forester.

BTW it's the only part that I noticed that was different. I did not swap cam pulleys, etc - left them all in place (actually new idlers and tensioner).

For all I know if the cam sprockets were swapped the 304 may have worked.


.... and also the crank gear (and perhaps also the toothed idler).

Lets not forget how VW (used to) want to know the exact month your car was made to get parts.


Same was (is?) true of Mercedes-Benz because they would introduce changes at any point during the production process of each model year. Maybe this partially explains why their parts cost so darn much.




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