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Which solid rear axle do I buy?


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#1 TeamCF

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:47 AM

And other parts.

So I searched for a couple hours last night. (maybe I missed something)
Didn't really find the info I was looking for.
Found a bunch of other good info though for more elaborate rigs.
So I want the lowdown.

I want to put a solid rear axle in my GL.
3.900 ratio. To match the front diff.
Which truck do I look for in the JY.
I know plenty of guys have done it but a definitve answer I have not found.

I'm not doing a transfer case. Don't want a monster Soob, just a more durable one.
Just a solid rear axle with a 4" lift up front.

Sadly my other option...
Is to buy the other wheeler I found and am going to go look at.
In that case the Soob will be retired as I'll need to sell it for $$$ to blow on the new wheeler. :rolleyes:

I recently decided that I do not want to be a part of the axle breaker club.
And I feel it 's going to happen soon.

One of those choices is going to help with keeping me out of it.

What it boils down to is I saved up enough cash to make a change in my wheeling. And stock rear Soob drivetrain will NOT be part of it.
I could SJR and Swamper my GL right now. But the first axle that breaks will proly piss me right off. For me wheeling is to be more of a relaxing thing. Not constant breakage.
Honestly. If I was in Scoobyclimbs shoes and broke an axle 3 of the 4 first times I took my new hatch out. It would proly be scrap. That's just excessive in my book. And I've been thinking alot about it lately.
My rig progress is halted for reliability due to the weak rear end.
I don't want to get to the point I'm throwing $50 at the back of my Soob every time I wheel it. That'll cost me $100 a week!

So yeah.
No himhawin' around.
I want to know what I need to go get and about how much to expect to spend to make it happen. Simple. :)
I don't know what the final outcome will be for me.
But a definitive list of parts could make this conversion easier for future Soob wheelers as well.

Wait. I might have just found what I needed.
http://www.ultimates...lid axle ratios

But still feel free to chime in with ideas. :)

Edited by TeamCF, 02 January 2009 - 12:56 AM.


#2 monstaru

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:08 AM

from what i gather.......the older nissan cars had some pretty burly axles from what i hear.and the driveline might even match up.

an isuzu rear axle out of an early truck might work.ken did that.i dunno,i say figure out u joints for the rear axles, and put a solid axle up front.thats where the real limitations are.
cheers, brian

#3 TeamCF

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:32 AM

Well one thing I was thinking is 510 axles for the rear.
I know of a whole 510 rear suspension and drivetrain just sitting in a shed.
And the u-joint axles look pretty beefy.

Hey they take our LSD's, why not take thier axles? :lol:

Be pretty straight forward at the diff end. but the wheel end may (or may not) take some figuring.
(huh, another thought, wonder how much I could get that rear end for?....)

If I was gonna go solid up front I would just do like McBrat. His current build is freakin' awesome.
And then I think.
Well then why not just start with a rig that already has solid axles under it?
As neat as a total SAS'ed Soob would be. It's just not a project I want right now.

Not when it's such a buyer's market right now for used vehicles. Cheaper to buy a decent 4x4 truck or some such thing than go gonzo on the Soob right now.
And the satisfaction would be great with a monster Soob. But I'll be back on the trails faster with a ready to go rig.

I'm still processing all of it (why I wanted info and ideas from the USMB peeps). So who knows which direction will be followed in the end. :)

For all I know I'll blow the $$ building a new computer for my flight sims and I'll be wheeling my stock GL for the next 3 years. :lol:

Edited by TeamCF, 02 January 2009 - 01:36 AM.


#4 TeamCF

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 02:03 AM

You just need to know when to give it gas and how much. If you break an axle every time you go out, you're doing it all wrong. Finesse the pedal, not smash it. Get out and walk your line in rough situations, pick your path first, not as you're in the middle of it.

I can't remember ever breaking a rear axle in all the (lots and lots of) times I went out, although I did grenade a welded rear diff once. But that was the infamous "Wall" trail at Reiters Pit. And I made it the way back down in 3 wheel drive. I have the video of that trail somewhere, very impressive.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of them break, but it was driver error almost every time.


I've never broken one either. I'm all about finesse on the trails.
Skinny pedal should be used sparingly. My Soob does good just idling around trails and when it bogs a tad gas pedal will pull it right out.

But I can just feel it coming.
Proly in Safeway parking lot. :lol:

Really I could avoid it by just finally getting my passenger side unfroze at the wheel end. My diff seems to be offset so the driver's side, though it's all antisiezed up, will not come out until the diff is out first. (need about another 3/4" of clearance, pass side would just fall out)
Then I wouldn't worry as much. Just lately when on the street it sounds like someone is beating on the driveshaft with hammers as I turn. :-\

I just have the solid axle itch these days. I historically get bored with vehicles fast.
(I'm making payments on 3 different new cars rolled into my current car payment cause I kept trading in too fast and putting too many miles on them.... that was dumb....)


Like I said. This is gonna be a process. Maybe I should just throw and order Scott's way, beat that axle out of there, and be happy. :)

#5 one eye

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 02:12 AM

I would have to say that there is something up with the EA81 Axles, one day Rob Broke 3, I broke 1, Will broke 1, and woody broke 1.. All of us wheel different, I would figure that there is somthing that causes them to go. I gave up on wheeling my Brat just for this reason.
GD has a post up on how to swap out the EA82 bells to the EA81 axles it is supposed to lenthen them a touch.


I looked for that link but, I cant find it. Maybe shoot GD a PM he may have the link saved.

Jeff

#6 Numbchux

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:03 AM

I've never heard of anyone doing a solid axle without a tcase (not saying it can't be done, but your comment that you know it's been done is not entirely true).

also, I think you'll be hard-pressed to stuff a solid axle under there with enough room for suspension workings and such with only a 4" lift. maybe relocate the fuel tank?


and yea, once I dropped the diff enough, I didn't break any rear axles on the trail (had more problems with fronts, and even then, 95% of my broken axles were on the road, mostly from torn boots/dirt in the joint).



not saying it's a bad idea, or it won't work, just that it might not solve the problem (which might not exist in the first place).

#7 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:22 AM

It would be pretty easy to set up a live rear axle on a 4" lifted rig. First, just go to the JY with a tape measure and a friend to help hold it and measure the width of the axles on some japanese rigs, and check to see if they have the right gear ratios, or if you can get the right one from an aftermarket supplier. When you find one that is the width/ratio you want, remove the rear torsion tube assembly from the wagon. then, utilizing some EA82 rear coilovers or some other units that will fit (like nice adjustable ones) set up either a Triangulated 4 link setup or a parallel 4 link with panhard bar. With a 4 inch lift there might be as little as 4 inches of diff clearance, but i think there should be a littl more than that. You should be able to re use the stock driveline if the flanges match and you set it up right, and if not, have a new one made (not too expensive). If you need more room for the diff, try fitting a Hatchback gas tank in where the stock one was, its like 11 gallons vs. 13 or 14 or so, and its shorter I belive.

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#8 michael appel

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:27 AM

I agree with zap its all how you wheel it.

I took my rig up hogs back and gave her a go a few time s and never broke anything

also a few times out by goat had to pedal it out of a hole didnt break it then either

Steve is running 31s on the brat and he isnt afraid of getting the pedal to the floor

you just have to know when to hold it and not

I am happy with my 4 inch lift and axles but I am saving to do a solid axle swap for front and rear going to go suzuki or toyota

toyota is the right way to go because axles can be gotten for fifty bucks just need a transfercase to go with it

#9 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 10:22 AM

And other parts.

So I searched for a couple hours last night. (maybe I missed something)
Didn't really find the info I was looking for.
Found a bunch of other good info though for more elaborate rigs.
So I want the lowdown.

I want to put a solid rear axle in my GL.
3.900 ratio. To match the front diff.
Which truck do I look for in the JY.
I know plenty of guys have done it but a definitve answer I have not found.

I'm not doing a transfer case. Don't want a monster Soob, just a more durable one.
Just a solid rear axle with a 4" lift up front.

Sadly my other option...
Is to buy the other wheeler I found and am going to go look at.
In that case the Soob will be retired as I'll need to sell it for $$$ to blow on the new wheeler. :rolleyes:

I recently decided that I do not want to be a part of the axle breaker club.
And I feel it 's going to happen soon.

One of those choices is going to help with keeping me out of it.

What it boils down to is I saved up enough cash to make a change in my wheeling. And stock rear Soob drivetrain will NOT be part of it.
I could SJR and Swamper my GL right now. But the first axle that breaks will proly piss me right off. For me wheeling is to be more of a relaxing thing. Not constant breakage.
Honestly. If I was in Scoobyclimbs shoes and broke an axle 3 of the 4 first times I took my new hatch out. It would proly be scrap. That's just excessive in my book. And I've been thinking alot about it lately.
My rig progress is halted for reliability due to the weak rear end.
I don't want to get to the point I'm throwing $50 at the back of my Soob every time I wheel it. That'll cost me $100 a week!

So yeah.
No himhawin' around.
I want to know what I need to go get and about how much to expect to spend to make it happen. Simple. :)
I don't know what the final outcome will be for me.
But a definitive list of parts could make this conversion easier for future Soob wheelers as well.

Wait. I might have just found what I needed.
http://www.ultimates...lid axle ratios

But still feel free to chime in with ideas. :)



toyota makes a 3.9, if the ratios a little off you can run different tire sizes front and rear , when your spinning in the mud it wont matter anyway if the ratios a tad off, Ive never broke a Axle wheelin offroad, they have always been EA82 , my weak point is the front radius rods, I seem to like bending them,

the nissans have a few 3.9s

'68-'72 datsun 510 wagon(leaf spring 4-lug) I believe these were 29spline, all other H190's are 31 spline gear ratio was 3.90

Nissan pickup 521, 620 models 59-79 all models leaf spring 6-lug 3.90-4.30 depending on year and intended uses (some were camper specials)

Nissan 720 pickup 80-86 2wd regular cab/king cab all transmissions leaf spring 6-lug 3.42-3.90 depending on tranny and cab

Nissan D21 pickup 86.5-95 V-6 2wd 3.90

Edited by Scott in Bellingham, 02 January 2009 - 10:24 AM.
specs


#10 SubPar

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:44 PM

Early Toyota Tercel 4x4s have a solid rear axle, but I'm not sure about the gear ratios.

Posted Image

Try http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/ for more info.

Just don't ever buy one of these things. Not as easy to work on as a Subaru, and parts availability is scarce, which is why mine went to the junkyard.

#11 TeamCF

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:04 PM

hehe I almost bought a 4WD Tercel.
Then I spotted the Soob and it was cheaper so I grabbed it instead. (dodged that bullet)

I think I may just lift it.
I wheel like my gas pedal is made of eggshells so breaking one off road will proly never be a problem.
Anyone whose wheeled with me knows I get into the technical finesse of it and get bored with the all out pedal to the metal crap.

Going full on with SAS front and rear with a t-case. would take it off the trails too long. I'd feel the need, pick up a Jeep or something, and after that the Soob would sit and rot, family would get pissed, (they are already kinda miffed about my 3rd car sitting around, the RX7 thats not street legal) it would get hauled of the the JY. :-\

I don't want that to happen.

So in light of everything. (I am still looking at solid axle rigs on CL but I'll proly keep the Soob in the end)
I'm gonna proly lift it.
Better tires.
GM alt.
And fix the leaks, my headliner and driver seat is soaked with all the rain.
And beef up the unibody. After that last TSF run my doors are out of alignment and the body seems to be bowed. All the rust popping does not help. :-\ (I don't think it lived out here all it's life.....)
Finish my new engine and proly put it in.
And pick up a few spare axles. If I have 'em on hand and DO break one. it won't be as inconvenient. :)


Thank you to all for the info.
There are a few good tidbits in here for future reference. :)

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

Ive wheeled a couple EA81's and never broke a rear shaft. Except for once at the WCSS when I was going hog wild in the mud pit... and it had a LSD so thats putting even more stress on them axles.

If your careful, you will make it through with only body damage. But there are some cases when tempers flare, and you end up using more of the skinny pedal. Luckily for us, the EA81 doesn't put out alot of power.

Just keep certain things in mind when you're out wheeling. Primarily the position of each one of your tires. If you have one wheel off the ground, you probably do not want to drop the clutch at 3 grand. If you have your front wheels turned full lock, chances are you will want to take it easy for a second.

Knowing WHEN to use the skinny pedal is the key here.

Or you can cheat, and buy a more capable 4X4, but then your wheeling will get more extreme and you will still end up breaking something. Its a catch 22.

Just go out, and have fun with it! Find a bypass if it looks like its going to tear your Subaru in two.

#13 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 03:37 PM

I believe that if you don't break something when you go out wheeling, you're not having fun. I blew up a welded rear diff last time I was out. I haven't taken it apart to see what went wrong.

I also think that if you break something, it's just an excuse to make it stronger. In theory, once you replace everything that breaks with a stronger piece, nothing will break. But, finding out when the breaking stops is the hard part.

I do understand the anger it brings to break something offroad, especially when it happens right in the beginning of your trip. But that's the challenge. The engineers didn't think that someone was going to get the great idea of lifting one of their wagons they designed.

This may just be my view, but I always look at things and wonder how to make it better and breaking it is an easy way of doing this.

Good day all,

Justin.

#14 Andy FitzGibbon

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 04:15 PM

I've never heard of anyone doing a solid axle without a tcase (not saying it can't be done, but your comment that you know it's been done is not entirely true).


It has been done. Someone posted photos a while ago (before all the board crashes and hijacks) of a car they saw and followed on the highway that had a solid rear axle. It was not lifted. It was in a foreign country somewhere, can't remember which one or who posted it.
Andy

#15 TeamCF

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 06:23 PM

Johnson;782315']I believe that if you don't break something when you go out wheeling, you're not having fun. I blew up a welded rear diff last time I was out. I haven't taken it apart to see what went wrong.

I also think that if you break something, it's just an excuse to make it stronger. In theory, once you replace everything that breaks with a stronger piece, nothing will break. But, finding out when the breaking stops is the hard part.

I do understand the anger it brings to break something offroad, especially when it happens right in the beginning of your trip. But that's the challenge. The engineers didn't think that someone was going to get the great idea of lifting one of their wagons they designed.

This may just be my view, but I always look at things and wonder how to make it better and breaking it is an easy way of doing this.

Good day all,

Justin.


I just have more fun when I don't worry about it.
For me continuing down the trial is more fun that crawling under my GL in the mud and rain for an hour when I wanted to be wheeling.

I always hear the "If you're not breaking things your not wheeling!"
Fine for some. But time and $$$ are not on my side for major repairs and overhauls. So I prefer to turn it down a notch and go home in one piece.
I still have just as much fun. :)
And get in more seat time.

And I'm just as serious as the next guy when it comes to my wheeling.
In the two years I've been really into it I've proly gotten ten to fifteen years of the average wheeler's wheeling time under my belt.
I go out 2 maybe 3 times a week (3 is a good week, 1 is a bad week). for at least a few hours. (weeknight trips are shorter than sat/sun trips)
The weather has sucked so it's been awhile latley though, all the stuff here is under about 6 feet of snow now. :-\
It's disrupted my normal schedule of every sunday, and every wed night.

Most of the "eat, sleep, breath wheeling" guys I know and wheel with only get out once a month if it's a good month.
Even when gas was $4/gal. I cut other things like 3 meals a day to eating once maybe twice a day so I had the gas $$ to wheel.

And yes breaking things is a great way to make it stronger.

So why have we not come up with a bullet proof rear end for our Soobs yet?!?!?

To me the #1 problem.
It would seem. I've never had a problem and gotten up some of the stupidist trails out at TSF. Without a broken axle. Tore a front strut out, but no axle problems.
But I worry about it.
And I want to wheel worry free. :)

From what I have heard, new rear axles are no longer made for EA81s.
it has become a JY gamble on getting good ones. And at least close to me. Even those are a needle in a haystack. Last time I went to the local U-pullit. They had one FWD EA81. And a couple stripped EA82s. Does me no good. (they used to have tons of Soobs, but say they come in less and less often)
So even our JY axles are gonna dry up sooner than we think and we'll all be left in FWD.
Unless we figure this out.

#16 Greenley

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Posted 03 January 2009 - 08:01 PM

I want to wheel worry free.


I'm afraid this is not reality no matter what you're driving.
It's the risk and worry that makes it what it is.
I wouldn't have half as much fun in a "real" rig.

#17 Numbchux

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 02:54 AM

Johnson;782315']I believe that if you don't break something when you go out wheeling, you're not having fun. I blew up a welded rear diff last time I was out. I haven't taken it apart to see what went wrong.

I also think that if you break something, it's just an excuse to make it stronger. In theory, once you replace everything that breaks with a stronger piece, nothing will break. But, finding out when the breaking stops is the hard part.

I do understand the anger it brings to break something offroad, especially when it happens right in the beginning of your trip. But that's the challenge. The engineers didn't think that someone was going to get the great idea of lifting one of their wagons they designed.

This may just be my view, but I always look at things and wonder how to make it better and breaking it is an easy way of doing this.

Good day all,

Justin.


no, you're not wheeling hard if you're not getting stuck occasionally. but it's more than possible to get stuck and not break anything (sure, some body damage, dented up sliders, etc. that happens....but no mechanical failure). That's the beauty of wheeling something that was designed to be pushed that hard.

also, if you break something, and then re-design it to make it stronger. 99% of the time, that means the next thing that breaks will be that much more catastrophic, difficult, and expensive to replace/upgrade (axles, stubs, diff, trans, etc.).

It has been done. Someone posted photos a while ago (before all the board crashes and hijacks) of a car they saw and followed on the highway that had a solid rear axle. It was not lifted. It was in a foreign country somewhere, can't remember which one or who posted it.
Andy



oh, good call! I do remember that. Loyale2.7turbo posted it, I believe.....off to search for it. although, I think it was a tercel axle or something, which I don't really think would hold up to oversized tires any better than an r160.



as for wheeling worry-free. I've borrowed buddies jeeps, toyotas, nissans, etc. and wheeled them harder than I ever did my soob, without worrying about needing to borrow a trailer to get the rig home. never had that with any of the subarus, and wheeling just isn't fun when you're thinking about who you can call to come rescue a car that doesn't roll/run/turn. I love subarus to death, and had a ton of fun wheeling them, but got tired of being scared about how I was going to get home. I think I made one trip without breaking something mechanical, and that was when my water pump was going out and I could drive it most of the day......

Edited by Numbchux, 04 January 2009 - 02:57 AM.


#18 TeamCF

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 04:00 AM

^^^^
Exactly.

Though in the many trips I've taken my list of breakage is such: 1 brake line, 1 ripped out front strut, 1 bent front suspension arm. (not related to the strut)
Other than that I have only gotten various dents, scrapes, rubs, ect.
SC told me I got lucky and must have gotten a good Soob that's not showing it's age.
I can hit all the same stuff as everybody else on an outing and others break thier stuff. My Soob tends to go home uglier (depending on how you look at trail rash) but in one piece.
Even watched a built up Jeep blow a transfercase on a hillclimb out at TSF.
Just to make him and his "I Drive a Bronco *spits out chew*" friend get all butthurt I climbed it twice while they were trying to hook it up to get towed out. :lol: After they told me there was no way a Subaru could climb it.
Then joined the rest of my party and we hit more trails.

But like I said I know my time is coming. My Soob is getting more tattered every trip.

Like has been said it's all about knowing when to gas it and when to let off.
But the time will come where I'll just have to gas it and snap.

#19 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 12:42 PM

Back when I first started wheeling my Subarus, I never broke anything. But I have been lately...it's probably the fact that I know that I have a tow home with one of my friend's trucks and trailer.

I do agree that not breaking anything is the goal and having to not worry about something breaking is great. But, sometimes stuff breaks and that's something that you need to think about and drive accordingly to. And, believe me, I don't have the money or time to keep replacing things.

As for solid axles...I have an idea that might be able to fix that.

Question: How much of an angle will a rear CV shaft work...if the angle was constant, not going more or less of an angle? I had an idea of completely housing the diff, axles, and spindles as one unit and having them pivoting on one point...with attachments to the torsion bar too.

Edited by [HTi]Johnson, 04 January 2009 - 12:53 PM.


#20 TeamCF

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 02:52 PM

Johnson;782629']
As for solid axles...I have an idea that might be able to fix that.

Question: How much of an angle will a rear CV shaft work...if the angle was constant, not going more or less of an angle? I had an idea of completely housing the diff, axles, and spindles as one unit and having them pivoting on one point...with attachments to the torsion bar too.



You could be onto something.
Biggest question is: would it just make sense to put a solid axle in for the amount of fab work. But hey looking at all options and coming up with different ideas is what this problem needs.

#21 monstaru

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 09:52 PM

your not the first,and won't be the last.

i have been tossing an idea around about 4 linking the rear of an ea81 hatch.......using coilovers and negating the torsion bar,or 4 linking the torsion bar and getting mad flex out of all of it with a solid "acting piece like hti is talking about..........




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