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Weber Conversion..won't idle


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42 replies to this topic

#26 sleddogg

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:42 AM

After some reconsideration, I am gonna try to get this thing to work..now it's personal :grin:

I will check to see what main jets it has in it. I think they are 140's already, but will double check.

As far the idle jet, when I got the carb it had a Idle Cutoff Solenoid in it with the plunger cut off :-\ So, I purchased a new jet holder and primary idle jet for it. I used the size that was listed on the stock 32/36 DGV that was listed on Carbs Unlimited's website, which was 60.

I am pretty sure all the jets matched what was on that site to be honest, but I will double check.

I am pulling the carby off again this weekend, I have a friend that is loaning me his air compressor so I can truly blow out all the passages. Maybe some gunk hidden deep down inside. I am also gonna check out the filter back by the pump, I installed an inline filter under the hood, but maybe the other is gummed up.

I sure appreciate all the help.

Thanks,

Jesse

#27 ihscout54

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:13 PM

There is a procedure for tuning the idle on these. The idea is that the throttle plate needs to be pretty much closed at idle. http://www.redlinewe..._lean_best_.htm
Im sure youve seen this but every time you touch this thing you will have to do this again. If the micture screw is damged or incorrect, you will have problems. Also, the throttle plate must be set correctly in the bore, or you will never be able to tune it properly. Befor you beat your head against the wall too much longer, take a look at my experiances with rebuilt holley 5200's (similar to your weber). Not that this will solve any problem, but I know how you feel. It may trigger an idea.
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=95459

#28 naru

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:17 PM

In case you didn`t know,some DGV series carbs use different style idle jets in the primary and secondary.Don`t know if it is possible to install them in the wrong positions but if so,I would expect problems.

picture here http://www.racetep.com/webrebuild.html

specs http://www.webernort...artscatalog.pdf

#29 sleddogg

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:50 PM

I think you may be onto something with the throttle plates. I took the primary out when I had it apart...I need to check it to make sure that it's sealing properly in the bore. Last time I looked at it looked pretty good, but I wanna put some light above it to make sure. I wonder if the secondary is sealing correctly too....that would effect it as well I would imagine. Thanks for the links and the knowledge that the throttle plates need to be basically closed at idle. I can just see the top transition port when it's closed...but I am gonna try the light method as well. Will a fuel resistant thread sealer be ok on those screws or should I whack them as the factory did?

The idle jets are definitely different sizes on this carb. I noticed that when I tore it down, it has the "Big" idle jet on the primary side. I made sure I got that when I ordered it.

Webers aren't really known for play in the bores like what was discovered in the Holley 5200's are they?

It's gotta be something simple :)

New carb is sounding good...but I would love to spite this thing and get it running :grin:



Thanks
JEsse

#30 ihscout54

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:29 PM

You may find a solution, unfortunatley for me my carbs are no good for this application. Its a pitty though, I had the swap perfect with a nice air cleaner, throttle linkage etc. The secondary has a stop screw I would not tamper with it unless its not closing tight. Its only accessable from the bottom.
I had 3 carbs, and all 3 did totally different things. Funny thing is the used one from the junk yard was better running than the 2 e-bay rebuilts. Im sure the weber DGV's get the shaft play just like the holley 5200's.

#31 ihscout54

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:58 PM

Oh, You dont need to remove the screws to adjust the butterfly, just loosen them a hair. But if you do decide to remove the plates... Use new screws. You can really only stake them once and you also run the risk of stripping the threads in the shaft with a pre-staked re-used screw. If you do get it stripped in there it sucks to get it out. When you stake in-place support the shaft with a socket or something cause if you dont you could bend the shaft and butterfly.

#32 sleddogg

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:30 AM

Ihscout54,

I read through the post that you linked and you said there was some foamy bubbly-ness in your rad...did you ever determine if that was a head gasket? Mine was doing a bit of the same earlier.

This weekend, I am tearing the carb down again, soaking, blowing through with a compressor, checking and resetting the throttle plates if needed, checking and double checking the float level, confirming jet sizes, changing the fuel filter and making sure all lines are clear. Also installing a fuel pressure regulator. THEN, I am getting some more carb cleaner, make absolutely sure there are no vacuum leaks and then if if it don't run.......:confused:


After that barrage, it won't have a choice but to purr like a kitty cat. :)


Oh, Loyale 2.7 Turbo...I noticed that bizarre little vacuum port going to the choke when I tore it down, I am gonna double check that it's sealing good when I go back into it. Thanks!!
I will post back when it's all done

Thanks a million guys. I can only hope someday I can help some of you with your troubles

Jesse

Edited by sleddogg, 11 February 2009 - 12:32 AM.
Just some stuff to add.


#33 ihscout54

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:45 AM

I did not look any further into the head gasket, being an issue. I really should do a compression test. The coolant level was bit low and the bottle was empty, so I wrote it off as the cause. Im not in the mood for a head gasket replacement.

#34 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:25 PM

Sounds to me like your idle circuit is plugged. Pull out the idle jet and make sure the tiny holes on the sides and tip of the jet aren't blocked.

The carb is not equipped with an idle cut solenoid is it?

Not idleing below 1000 RPM is a sure sign that nothing is getting through the idle circuit as you are having to open the primary throttle plate and you are limited in how slow the engine can run off the primary as it will not create a enough low pressure in the venturi to pull fuel through the primary nozzle.

Where in the willamette valley are you? I'm in the West Linn, Oregon City area. I could probably solve your problem in an hour or less.

You don't need a fuel pressure regulator, and you probably don't need to tear the carb completely down again.

GD

#35 sleddogg

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:21 PM

Hey GD,

That would be a good if I didn't have to tear the carb down again. I checked the idle jet the last time I was messing with it. It was clear, as a matter of fact it's a new jet and holder. It had an idle cutoff solonoid when I bought it but they had cut part of it off...the carb didn't even have an idle jet in it. So I ordered a new jet and holder when I got the adapter.

I live in Salem by the way. Thanks for the reply. I was gonna ask you if you had any recommended yards to gather up some FI swap goodies. This carb gig is a temporary measure. Ultimately I wanna go SPFI with this thing.

Take care,

Jesse

#36 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:14 PM

I live in Salem by the way. Thanks for the reply. I was gonna ask you if you had any recommended yards to gather up some FI swap goodies. This carb gig is a temporary measure. Ultimately I wanna go SPFI with this thing.


I stick to the bigger yards that have price listings posted on the wall. I don't like being looked up and down then charged "white guy" priceing. I don't have the time nor the inclination for haggling with folks that have fewer digits or appendages than I do (I retain all factory equipment despite years of abuse zzz).

The LKQ yard in Sherwood is a good choice with plenty of SPFI vehicles. You could get everything you need there for probably under $200.... maybe a lot under depending on who rings it up.

GD

#37 hatchsub

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:55 PM

I don't like being looked up and down then charged "white guy" priceing. I don't have the time nor the inclination for haggling with folks that have fewer digits or appendages than I do (I retain all factory equipment despite years of abuse zzz).
GD


Possibly the funniest thing ive read all night GD :lol:

#38 sleddogg

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 12:21 PM

ALAS! SUCCESS!!

The soob is now idling happily....and I didn't have to do half the stuff I had planned on doing today.

I took out the primary idle jet and holder and the idle adjustment screw in the bottom. Took the borrowed air compressor (thanks Mike) and blew them both out. With some trepidation, set the choke and turned the key. Let her warm up a touch and blipped the throttle and I'll be damned if she didn't sit there and idle pretty. Reset the mixture, idle speed, timing and all that jazz and she happily sits there at around 750 rpm.

I appreciate everyone's input on this deal, I would still be banging my head on this deal without you guys! :banana:

Naru and GD had both mentioned the idle circuit, but it didn't get through my thick skull until I really read GD's post about it and starting the rusty gears in my head turning. I was sure I was chasing a vacuum leak.

Thanks again guys!!

Jesse :grin:

Edited by sleddogg, 13 February 2009 - 12:24 PM.


#39 sleddogg

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 06:49 PM

Well, after replacing hoses, rerouting everything for the weber, and temporarily installing a manual choke (I'm broke now), I finally got to take her out for a spin. Runs great, good power, doesn't bog down, really gets up and moves when I hit the go pedal. I mean, it's not a WRX....but I'm freakin' stoked.

Debating on running some advance on the timing. I know there are some posts out there about webers liking a little advance...search time.

Again, thanks everyone for the input. You guys rock.

Jesse

#40 hatchsub

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 10:39 PM

yea with a weber you can advance your timing a bit more. Im running somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 degrees (kinda did it by feel...not pinging)

#41 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 01:56 AM

...Debating on running some advance on the timing. I know there are some posts out there about webers liking a little advance... ...


Not Only Timin` Advance... they Work better with a More Powerful ignition Coil than Stock...

I have my Weberized EA82 with an Accel Superstock Coil and Timing at Around 25º without pinging.

Kind Regards!

#42 sleddogg

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 02:17 AM

Right on

I was just thinking about gettin one of those old Accel coils...used them for years on the old V8 Chevy's I drove as a kid. Once I get a few more bucks, I will toss one in there.

Thanks!
Jesse

#43 hatchsub

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 10:49 AM

No need to get aftermarket coil. In fact i advise you not to. I had one and it burned out the distributor. These engines are so small you wont notice the difference anyways. If you hunt around the board you will find that the factory coils are better quality and a better match for the distributor. These distributors are pretty sensitive to more power so when swapping distributors say (hitatchi to Nippo Denso or visa versa) you need to swap the corresponding coil as well.




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