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60 replies to this topic

#26 WJM

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Posted 22 January 2004 - 08:47 AM

*drool*

#27 Marnix

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Dr. RX
Marnix, send them to me, I'll post them.


Will take a few pics this weekend and send them to you on Monday.

Did you know that all early EJ20 closed deck engines had the oil squirters for the pistons? Even the normally aspirated ones?

:D

#28 WJM

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:00 AM

Thats awesome! Which new ones have it? Do you happen to know that?

#29 JonOfScio

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 11:01 AM

hey WJM, there was a good EJ20TT on ebay the other day. mmmmmmm.... ;)

#30 Dr. RX

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 02:53 PM

Marnix, I had heard that before, but had also heard that only the USDM EJ22 Turbo had them. It was hard for me to think that Subaru would only do that for one series of engines.

Jon, because of the position of the left turbo and the brake boost on the USDM, the twin turbo will not easily install into an EA82 series car. Not saying it can't be done, just that there would be a LOT of modification that had to be done.

#31 JonOfScio

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 05:45 PM

eh? well, still, the idea is cool.

#32 calebz

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 06:10 PM

Find yourself a RHD legacy(postal wagon) on Ebay and go for it.:D

#33 Dr. RX

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 05:19 PM

Marnix came through with pics.

Links:
Closed Deck 1
Closed Deck 2
Closed Deck Head
Open Deck 1
Open Deck 2

#34 WJM

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 10:25 PM

DO YOU KNOW WHAT JUST OCCURED TO ME?!?!??!?!

Sorry for the excitement....

BUT....the Legacy turbo block is closed deck. So is the EA82T. It is gridded, both of them like that....unless I am remembering something completely wrong. Are the EJ20G/K/7 gridded too? And a medium cast like the EJ22 turbo block?

If so...that means the EA82T engine is a medium cast. And 300 hp is realistic.....its just so detuned it not even funny.

#35 Marnix

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 01:58 AM

I believe that materials are the same for all engines.

The EJ22 normally aspirated and I believe also the open deck EJ20G/K/5 are alle non-gridded. I wouldn't know about the EJ20H/R/7/9.

But sofar, the gridded / non-gridded castings show the difference between closed deck and open deck.

I think this stands as long as nobody proves this theory wrong.

#36 LegacyT

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 04:57 AM

The Legacy turbo shortblock also used a different aluminium from all other subaru engines. Its a much denser high silica aluminum, the more you learn about the EJ22T the greater the gem it becomes.

Mark,

#37 WJM

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 08:31 AM

Same AL, just a different way of making the block.

High pressure cast for most everything else...means it got air bubbles in it and its no so strong.

Medium pressure means there are no bubbles, and its stronger....but it takes a better cooling system to take the heat away from the block, as it hold head better.

Someone hit it well on NASIOC, in a thread I read a while back....

http://forums.nasioc...25&pagenumber=1

xephyr:

7. The T.Leg short block is made of a different aluminum than all the other open deck blocks. It is a sandcasted "medium pressure diecast aluminum crankcase...utilized to secure the higher rigidity necessary with a closed deck." (SAE technical document #890471). The open deck block "is made of high pressure die cast aluminum". High pressure casting unfortunately forces tiny little bubbles into the aluminum as it cools down, but as whole is cheaper to process by Subaru. In short, THE T.LEGACY BLOCK IS DENSER, MORE RIGID AND STRONGER THAN OPEN DECK BLOCKS. IT IS ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE TO PRODUCE BY SUBARU. On the downside, because of its higher density, it retains more heat and requires more attention to cooling.



Maybe its a different AL...but i think its the same, just a different process to make the block. Forged steel vs cast steel, right?

Oh and I do have the SAE document he is talking of. I think i have it online as well, if anyone is interested.
http://www.geocities...baruengines.pdf

Here is a chart of most of the engines SUABRU made...I dont know who made it...Marnix maybe? (copy and paste the link)
http://www.geocities...baruengines.jpg

Have fun!

#38 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 09:27 AM

Them yahoos at geocity say the pages are unavailable.

#39 Dr. RX

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 02:24 PM

Ed (beauregaardhooligan), that's too funny, I left GeoCity because they got bought out by Yahoo. :lol:

#40 calebz

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 03:46 PM

try these.. copy and paste them.. If anybody cares, ask an I will explain why the others didn't work

http://www.geocities...baruengines.jpg

http://www.geocities...baruengines.pdf

#41 Dr. RX

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 09:14 PM

Don't know where that list of engines came from but the engine codes are not correct, look at Marnix's list, those are the correct codes. I have a copy of the paper sitting on the floor next to my computer. I have been a memeber of SAE for almost 20 years. I find it interesting that the only picture of a block in the paper is one of an open deck block (page 5).

#42 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 09:54 PM

Thanx, Caleb!
So Subaru *did* make the Justy motor.
Sorry, unHijack.

#43 Marnix

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 01:43 AM

THE T.LEGACY BLOCK IS DENSER, MORE RIGID AND STRONGER THAN OPEN DECK BLOCKS. IT IS ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE TO PRODUCE BY SUBARU

Now that you mention it, last night I took up both open deck and closed deck blocks (but one at a time, :-p ) and the closed deck block is *significantly* heavier, I reckon anything between 10 and 25 lbs. Too bad I don't have a scale that can take the weight of the engine, I only have a kitchen scale which I use for balancing and blueprinting pistons and connecting rods.

:D

#44 WJM

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Posted 28 January 2004 - 08:23 AM

EJ20 open deck vs EJ20 closed deck? or EJ22? I am going to look at the blocks I have here, dig them out if I can, and see if there is that grid pattern.

#45 Marnix

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 07:31 AM

I compared EJ20 OD vs EJ20 CD. However, I have an EJ22 OD sitting on top of a pile of engines in my garage, and it also was non-gridded.

Let me know what you find out.

Yesterday I finished putting the MY90 CD DOHC heads on a rebuilt MY92 OD EJ20 block. It's almost ready and supposed to go into the Wagon once I convert it to 4WD. Now that I also have bought an engine crane for only 50$ the games can commence!

#46 WJM

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 08:27 AM

The EA82T block is gridded. I have the pics, just need to find a place to put them.

I have yet to dig out a non turbo block to see if its gridded.

#47 Skip

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 09:02 AM

Here is a pict of the grid work on a EA82T.
Where in the literature does it say that "all blocks cast with a grid work are of made using the medium cast method"?
Or is this pure conjecture?
Is the EA82T block open or closed deck?
This is what Marnix had used to tell which was a closed deck in the first place. If it isn't closed then what is to say it isn't medium cast?
Seems to me, conclusion jumping should be an Olympic event around here.
How does one ascertain this feature of open/closed?

Posted Image

#48 WJM

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 09:53 AM

Exactly skip....I want to know for sure. It does look closed deck to me.

#49 Skip

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 10:03 AM

Will I am not questioning your ability to see, but what observation were you basing this statement?
"It does look closed deck to me"
As I will ask again
How does one ascertain this feature of open/closed?


#50 WJM

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 10:09 AM

look at Marnix's pic for open deck, then look at the ones for closed deck.

Also the grid pattern is a clue. Whether or not its a med. cast or high cast doesnt matter right now. Only SUBARU really knows what cast it is.




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