Bucky92 Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 We think we found the problem in some relays that went to the old AC...after disconnecting them we werent finding any live draws after. But will know in the morning ..going to leave the battery hooked up and see how it is in the morning. Took it for a spin today too and ...I remember why I love these stupid coupes. Also Edrach rocks !!!!!!! his exhaust he sent me is a direct bolt up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Good for you! Don't give up. Glad to hear you may have found the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 We think we found the problem in some relays that went to the old AC...after disconnecting them we werent finding any live draws after. But will know in the morning ..going to leave the battery hooked up and see how it is in the morning. Took it for a spin today too and ...I remember why I love these stupid coupes. Also Edrach rocks !!!!!!! his exhaust he sent me is a direct bolt up! Glad to hear that you might have found the battery drain source. Exhaust should have been a bolt in, but you never know until you try it. As you could see from the condition of the pipe it would have been a shame to toss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cawain Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Pull the neg. cable from the battery terminal. Now hook your trouble light between the battery neg post and the battery neg cable. If your trouble light lights you have a short. At this point start pulling fuses until the light goes out. Than WALLA! you have found the cuircuit that has the short. Have fun and please be patient Subarus get old and crabby just like people. Cawain said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well..No Go...battery dead again...we tested everything..in the fuse box, alt, relays, checked all the grounds. UGH!!!! I hate electricals. Just when I thought it was almost safe to start liking my coupe again. I dont understand it...I did not have this problem until swapping this new motor in and replacing the ign switch..which I already swapped that out again to make sure that isnt the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Check the dome/interior lights, make sure they are off. They will drain a battery overnight if "on". And it's not as obvious as some would think it would be, especially if you only work on vehicle during the daylight hours. Brake lights staying on would be another drain possibility. But those being "on" are a bit more obvious than the dome light(s). Still, it's worth looking into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Started looking for stuff...My hubby brought home a tester that electricians use to track wires and look for broken ones etc.. Started up the car and let it run for a good 15 minutes to finish charging up the battery. I then shut it off and disconnected the ground. took the wire tester over the wires and it was just beeping like crazy...no beeps from the Alt wiring ( this is good) but a bundle of wires to the pass side of the carb..many are unplugged because I believe they belonged to the old carter/weber carb...and the AC and the cruise. It does appear to me that something just isnt grounded. I did find that the O2 sensor was unplugged but that wouldnt cause anything.Connie, I finally have to step in and add my two cents to what you're doing. You can't charge a discharged battery in 15 minutes on the alternator. You might be chasing your tail here thinking you lost all charge overnight when in reality, the battery was only 10% charged to start with. It wouldn't take much draw to drain off that 10% overnight. Get, borrow, or rent a decent charger and FULLY charge your battery. When it's fully charged take it to your friendly neighborhood autoparts store and have them LOAD TEST the battery to be sure it is fully charged AND a good battery. Enough on the battery side. Now for the drain. A bad ground will not drain your battery. A bad ground adds resistance which will cause LESS drain. However, a partial ground somewhere which shouldn't be grounded can cause your excessive drain. You have a digital multimeter now. As someone else said, connect the DMM between the positive and negative battery terminals (no battery in the car, or the battery fully disconnected) and check the resistance. It should read infinite or really, really high. Something in the kilo-ohm range is probably normal (I'll check the reading on our '82 Brat as soon as it's light out and give you a number from a car that's not draining the battery). Any reading below 1000 ohms might be suspicious. Anything below 100 ohms is very bad. Let me know what you're reading and we'll go from there. All this time, your battery should be on the charger. Once it's fully charged we can try to figure out what's causing the drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks Ed... I am going to toss another alt on it if I still have one or 3 around here. This is a brand new battery I picked up the other day. And..it had been on the charger and was fully charged before we started doing anything yesterday. This is bad because I cant send the carb to Jerry until this drain problem is fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Okay, Thanks for the update on the battery. I took your comments about the 15 minutes to charge it at face value. Just so we're sure, you did fully recharge the battery after it was drained; correct? Also, an update, I measured our '82 Brat as I described and found the resistance I measured at greater than 20 Meg-ohms (i.e. offscale). So what's the resistance reading with your coupe? By the way, do you know the charge current on your battery charger? Edited April 12, 2009 by edrach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 That's ok on the carb. Just send it whenever. I am actually finishing up some side projects I have so your timing is going to work out good for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Follow Ed's advice - that is you best bet at finding the problem. I know it's tempting to *think* it's something associated with the engine swap but it's entirely possible that it's unrelated. You need to start from the battery terminal reading and follow a procedural path that you know will located the problem or narrow the search for it to only one or a handful of circuits. While the EA81's electrical system is simple, there are still about two dozen circuits in the car and just about any of them could cause a battery drain under the right circumstances. The problem may not even be in the engine bay. I feel that your frustation comes primarily from not accepting a procedure that will yeild data to help in solving the problem. I find it much less stressful if I come up with a plan before I ever turn a wrench - following the plan and then analyzing the results of the tests will get you closer to a solution much faster than what you have been doing. That, at least, is progress and sometimes even a little progress feels better than hours of shot-gunning parts at something. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 GD is right on the money. Electrical problems can be a pain, but it's not black magic. I use a two pronged approach. Throwing parts at it based on past experience is quick and easy if you have enough data to support the technique, but can prove frustrating since you spent time (and sometimes money) and don't have a good outcome. But sometimes, the quick attempt yields results if you're lucky. The methodical engineering approach takes longer but is usually always successful in tracking down the culprit. Even if you haven't resolved it along the way, knowing what items were eliminated as the cause is progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 I GIVE UP!!!! I HATE THIS CAR!! I have no clue what you people are talking about testing resistance etc etc.. Talking electronics is a foreign language to me..I only build the crap ..dont test it. I have no clue even where to set the stupid meter ( OK my true idiotness has come out and I hope many of you are happy) I dont mind mechanical ..dont mess with electrical All I know is the battery was at 12.8V an hour and a half ago and down to 12.3 5 minutes ago. Neo tested out the fuse box ..the output from the alt ..etc. we are getting nothing. Anyone want this worthless waste POS can come and get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I GIVE UP!!!! I HATE THIS CAR!! I have no clue what you people are talking about testing resistance etc etc.. Talking electronics is a foreign language to me..I only build the crap ..dont test it. I have no clue even where to set the stupid meter ( OK my true idiotness has come out and I hope many of you are happy) I dont mind mechanical ..dont mess with electrical All I know is the battery was at 12.8V an hour and a half ago and down to 12.3 5 minutes ago. Neo tested out the fuse box ..the output from the alt ..etc. we are getting nothing. Anyone want this worthless waste POS can come and get it Connie, we both know that there is a drain on the battery. Your voltage readings and overnight losses tell you that. But the voltage readings don't tell you anything about what is causing the drain. Drop me a PM with your phone number (I had it once but can't find it right now) and I'll talk you through some initial testing to see where this problem might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Connie, You stated you don't know anything about electricity and that is ok because a number of us here do understand it and can guide you to a solution to the trouble. All we need is information from you and for you to just follow some simple test procedures. You don't have to understand the reason why but you might just learn some things from doing them. If you are up to it, so are we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) ... As someone else said, connect the DMM between the positive and negative battery terminals (no battery in the car, or the battery fully disconnected) and check the resistance... Just to clarify what might be misinterpreted, "terminals" refers to the clamp/connectors on the cables and NOT the posts on the battery itself, and, as Ed typed, the battery needs to be disconnected from the circuit. Your test meter could get damaged by the battery's electrical "pressure" (voltage) while trying to measure the circuit's resistance to electrical "flow" (Ohms, resistance). Electrical "flow" (like your "drain") is measured in amps. Electricals are not terribly complicated if you just think about them in terms of moving a fluid (liquid or gas) through a pipe. The battery acts like a storage tank, holding pressure and volume, releasing its contents until it is drained dry. The battery is "refilled" by an electricity "pump", either your alternator or a battery charger; the alternator is really meant to just "top-up" the "storage tank" (battery), while the charger is meant to refill the "tank". The alternator is not meant to run at full output for other than short periods or it will burn out. In order to fill the "tank", the "pump" has to produce more pressure than is in the tank, so to fully charge a 12v car battery (which is really a 13.2V battery), alts/chargers need to produce around 14.7volts. The wires are the pipes that carry the electric "fluid" to where it is needed. The larger the wire/"pipe", the less resistance to flow it will have. A wire with a "short" (electricity finding a path to ground other than its intended destination) is like a pipe with a leak in it; electricity is leaking out of the wire. An "open" circuit/wire is like a pipe that has been disconnected and capped off. A bad connection can cause excessive resistance to flow, like a blockage or crimp in a pipe. Devices that use the electricity have their own internal resistance caused by the way they use the electricity, sort of like a water nozzle pointed at a water wheel. The switches act as control valves, and the fuses and fusible links act as safety shutoff valves. So, somewheres you have a leak. The tank (battery) could be "leaking"; even new ones can be bad. Your pump (alternator) could be malfunctioning; the pump parts might not be working, or the internal one-way valves (diodes) might be leaking. One of your pipes (wires) could be leaking. One of your electrically powered devices might be ON when you think it is OFF. To test your electricals, first see if your battery is "leaking". Fully charge it, and leave it disconnected. Measure whether it can maintain its charge (voltage). Note: This can be deceptive, as batteries can look good but fail once any real demands (load) is placed upon them; this is why it was recommended that you have an auto parts/repair place do a battery "load test". (BTW, I destroyed 3 alternators because I didn't realize that my battery was bad; the car never failed to start, so I assumed...) Next, put your meter on its resistance setting (ohms, or the Greek "omega" symbol that looks like an upside-down horseshoe). This turns the meter into a mini-"pump", forcing electricity down the wires and seeing how much makes it back to the meter. With everything in the car turned off, put one meter lead on the positive battery cable-clamp and the other on the negative battery cable-clamp. Ideally, the meter should read infinity or several M(ega)Ohms, but your clock and radio have circuits in them that are always powered on; if possible, disconnect the radio and clock (pulling the fuses may not be enough). If the meter indicates something other than infinity or M-Ohms, start pulling fuses until it does. Probably best bet is to either pull them all at once and reconnect them one-and-only-one at a time, or pull them on at a time and leave them disconnected. It is possible that you have multiple problems. You may need to do the same thing to the fusible link(s). Electrics may seem complicated, but it is just simple things replicated many times. I hope that this helps a little, and good luck. Edited April 12, 2009 by NorthWet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Ok, I'll add a little experience in here, not much, but I'll try. I know how you feel connie. I've had my fair share of electrical problems with my lego. I'll try to give you some diagnostic methods you can use. Laymans terms (or laylady's terms :-p) try pulling all the fuses and letting the car sit overnight. Test the battery after you pull the fuses before you let it sit. The next day, test it again. This method will let you know if the problem is in a circuit, and allow you to calm down and not stress about the car for a while. If it still drains with all the fuses pulled, you've probably got a short in your main wiring harness. If it doesn't, then you can put your fuses back in, one by one until you find which one has the draw on it. Ok? I hope it helps, Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Connie, NorthWet has the exact sequence needed to check out where this discharge is located. Along with a primer on electrics. The water/plumbing analogy is quite accurate. Only difference is that you can't see the electron flow and the electrons won't spill out of the wiring like water flows out of a pipe. Again, this Board is not about who's smarter than anyone else, but helping out when one's own special expertise will be useful. Hang in there, Connie, we're all just trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Not messin with it ...dont care about it anymore...just figuring out if i am going to part it or sell it whole ...what a frickin waste of money...now about $3500 in the whole on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) i think its possible you got a bad "new battery" or maybe LB is just pissed and giving you the sign it is getting ready to take out another digi dash, hope not. Edited April 13, 2009 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I dont leave the digi installed since I have a working one. ..its also the second brand new battery to be put in the car. I dont care ..its going in the for sale section.. Fate just tells me I am not supposed to have one of these coupes..first my 82 GLF and now this one. Not intelligent enough to deal with the "simplicity" of the EA81s Going to move it outside and free up the garage which will make my husband happy anyway. Maybe I will be lucky and it will pop gear and the e brake wont work and it will roll down the hill into the creek Edited April 13, 2009 by Bucky92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 One last question...is it normal to disconnect the battery and hear a sucking noise come from the carb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 One last question...is it normal to disconnect the battery and hear a sucking noise come from the carb?I've never heard of that. But that might be your parsitic drain. A solenoid holding a vacuum line closed; removing the battery removes power from the solenoid and results in the sucking noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I don't see how the noise could be related to anything electrically Connie. What you hear may be some leakage from one of the cylinders under compression. We're ready to start testing when you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Connie, I'm sorry the coupe failed you. I hope you find someone that can use it and love it. If I lived on the East coast I would gladly help you with it, but alas I do not. I hope the best for you and wish we could've helped you get it going. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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