PoorManzImpreza Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Problem is, the EJ pinion shaft is a larger diameter, so the EA gearset won't fit onto the EJ pinion shaft, not from what I can tell. From what I've seen you need full-time 4wd ea hardware if you want to do ea to ej output shaft gear swapping. What most people don't realize, (but I'm sure Gloyale has realized it) is that an awd ej and fulltime 4wd ea driven shaft assembly is two distinct shafts: an output shaft that has the gears pressed onto it and drives the center diff and a pinion shaft that is supported by bearings inside the output shaft that is driven by one side of the center diff. The pinion shaft spins freely inside the output shaft. This is why part-time 4wd driven gear sets can't be pressed onto full-time/awd outpt shafts. HTH Kaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Problem is, the EJ pinion shaft is a larger diameter, so the EA gearset won't fit onto the EJ pinion shaft, not from what I can tell. Oh yeah, forgot about that... I never thought that the same ratio gears but from different boxes could cause this problem. I'd say get an aussie EJ D/R or cryo treat the gears like whats-his-face said above^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineRaven Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 So.......... something was not compatible. tranny ran fine for about 500 miles and a few wheelin trips, then BANG! Second gear completely stripped out. no teeth at all left on the upper shaft. So......now to figure out what went wrong. I am unsure if it is an inherant problem with the conversion, or something done wrong during assembly. Or possibly just 2 worn gearsets mated won't be happy, and next time I'll have to start with new gearsets to break in properly with eachother. IDK I still hold hope that this conversion is possible, but there is something goin on with the way the two different 2nd gearsets mate. Anyone else trying this conversion be forewarned. I would love to see it done. I just thought sharing this was prudent. experiment at you're own risk. Did it blow while you were in low range? Interesting read in here... I've completed conversion from 1.19:1 to 1.59:1 ratio in EJ Dual Range gearbox. Cheers AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If the EA gears have a smaller shaft than the EJ, can you have the eA gears machined to fit the EJ shaft? -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineRaven Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If the EA gears have a smaller shaft than the EJ, can you have the eA gears machined to fit the EJ shaft? -Bill I dont think EA has smaller shaft, its completely different shaft between EJ & EA. Cheers AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineRaven Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If the EA gears have a smaller shaft than the EJ, can you have the eA gears machined to fit the EJ shaft? -Bill The only differences on main shaft is this - This is something I havent done, is to remove all cogs and sprockets off from EA shaft and put all from EJ shaft and put them on EA shaft then it should be ok? That is what I am going to do on next gearbox. Cheers AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Did anyone count the teeth on the 2nd gear for both shafts? is it possible there is like 1 tooth difference between the two that could have caused the failure? -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 Did anyone count the teeth on the 2nd gear for both shafts? is it possible there is like 1 tooth difference between the two that could have caused the failure?-Bill Yes I counted all teeth on all gears. they were all the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 The only differences on main shaft is this - This is something I havent done, is to remove all cogs and sprockets off from EA shaft and put all from EJ shaft and put them on EA shaft then it should be ok? That is what I am going to do on next gearbox. Cheers AP that is nice, but we don't have Dual range EJ transmissions here in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 I dont think EA has smaller shaft, its completely different shaft between EJ & EA.Cheers AP Correct, and the difference for the purpose of pressing on the gears is that the EA gears are on a smaller diameter shaft, so pressing them onto the EJ shaft won't work (unless they can be modifiied like bill suggested) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 (unless they can be modifiied like bill suggested) It's quite possible the ID of the gear is not hard. Are they a smooth bore or are they splined? If they're smooth and not hard, then it would be pretty easy. If they're splined, you'd need the correct broach and that can be expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Im hoping a solution to this can be figured out, Im quite interested in building a setup similar to this for my Brat, but i may just resort to cutting the pinion gear off the EJ shaft and having it precision welded onto the EA shaft. I still want to keep selectable FWD/4WD Is it possible there was a loose piece of metal or something in the case when you closed it? This just seems really weird :-\ -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Solution: You figure out shipping, you pay me $300-400US, I pull EJ D/R gearbox from car at wrecker. I then strip it down and ship necessary components for you to use with a donor EJ gearbox of any ratio. then you can have EJ D/R box that bolts straight to EJ engine with EJ clutch. You can mod in your own 1.59 EA82 low range easily. You can also have 3.9, 4.11 or 4.44 ratio depending on what donor box you have. Now if you want EA 2wd/4wd in this EJ box you could run into the same problems as this thread has stated and your stuck with 3.9 ratio. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Is it possible there was a loose piece of metal or something in the case when you closed it? This just seems really weird :-\ -Bill Actually, we dug in further, and found a few of the ring gear bolts had backed out, and shaved off a good amount of aluminum from the insdie of the case. Definately not good. However further examination of the teeth on the second gearset seem to show that there is a slight difference to the cut of the teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 However further examination of the teeth on the second gearset seem to show that there is a slight difference to the cut of the teeth. I was talking about this to my brother and that's what we thought might of been a problem. They do keep at designing these things to be quieter, stronger etc. Perhaps they worked out a better shape/angle to the teeth? Its interesting, because I didn't have a problem with my FT4WD/EJ DR combo. Thrashed that box a fair bit, good 10,000km on it. Sold it now so I dunno if it lasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 So then, was that the only gear that had a different cut to the teeth? Or are all the gears showing abnormal wear? Also, Red loc-Tite FTW on the carrier bolts next time, aint nothing gonna make those back out with that stuff on there.... This is getting interesting... -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanR693 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I was considering doing a similar swap, takeing the diff, pinion gears,rings etc out of my 94 Imp 5sp trans and puting them into a e82 FT D\R trans that im about to acquire. After reading this thread im haveing secound thoughts, can the drive pinion be removed from the EJ shaft and welded onto a EA shaft? Has anyone else done this swap with success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineRaven Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I was considering doing a similar swap, takeing the diff, pinion gears,rings etc out of my 94 Imp 5sp trans and puting them into a e82 FT D\R trans that im about to acquire. After reading this thread im haveing secound thoughts, can the drive pinion be removed from the EJ shaft and welded onto a EA shaft? Has anyone else done this swap with success? I haven't opened up EA FT Box before. With the drive pinion to weld up wouldn't be good because its likely will snap where the weld is. Cheers AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanR693 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I haven't opened up EA FT Box before. With the drive pinion to weld up wouldn't be good because its likely will snap where the weld is.Cheers AP Yeah I figured welding it wouldnt be the best idea . I Might just try the swap and pray she holds up :banana:lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Actually I read a thread somewhere (may have been another forum) where a guy did weld the new pinion gear to the EA shaft. It was all done properly, annealed (softened) before it was cut, then welded, machined, and re-tempered. If its all done right it would be like it was made that way... Of course if you don't do it right, its a recipe for disaster -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 See next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 I was considering doing a similar swap, takeing the diff, pinion gears,rings etc out of my 94 Imp 5sp trans and puting them into a e82 FT D\R trans that im about to acquire. After reading this thread im haveing secound thoughts, can the drive pinion be removed from the EJ shaft and welded onto a EA shaft? Has anyone else done this swap with success? If you are using a FullTime EA D/R (from RX) then you can simply slide the EJ pinion shaft inside the hollow EA lower shaft and go for it. (*only the FT EA boxes share this hollow shaft within shaft setup with thte EJs) Pressuming they are the same length. I can't say for sure, but actually I think using a FT box to start with would be the *missing link* for this hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanR693 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 If you are using a FullTime EA D/R (from RX) then you can simply slide the EJ pinion shaft inside the hollow EA lower shaft and go for it. (*only the FT EA boxes share this hollow shaft within shaft setup with thte EJs) Pressuming they are the same length. I can't say for sure, but actually I think using a FT box to start with would be the *missing link* for this hybrid. There was a little misunderstanding between me and the other party im going to be purchasing this trans off of. Its actually a P\T trans with the 4h 4l and FWD options(5sp), I believe its out of a dl but not sure. I have read through your entire thread but i cant remeber what trans you used im assuming it was a P\T due to your last post. Im a little confused on which way to go with this project I would like to use an e82 DR but still retain my subys stock 4.11 final drive. I've heard rumors that it might be possible to remove the transfer box from te EA and mate it to the EJ front diff case. Its either give that a try or find a F\T trans and try the same swap you did and see how it goes. Any one know of anyone with a e82 F\T that they are trying to get read of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I've heard rumors that it might be possible to remove the transfer box from te EA and mate it to the EJ front diff case. That would simply yeild a a single range EJ part time 4wd, as the Dual range action all happens on the mainshaft before the gearset in the front section of the case. And really that wouldn't work with shaft lengths and diameters anyhow. The EJ main shaft is totally different. Its either give that a try or find a F\T trans and try the same swap you did and see how it goes. That is still the only option I can see working. There could be 2 combos . Combo One: FT EA82 D/R front case, upper shaft and gears, Lower shaft and gears. (Outer section and gearset only, remove the EJ center pinion. EJ 4.11 ring gear and pinion shaft (center section of 2 piece hollow lower shaft only) PT EA82 D/R hi/lo gearset swapped in if 1.59 reduction desired. Combo Two: P/T EA82 D/R front case, upper shaft . FT S/R EA82 Upper Shaft gears pressed onto D/R upper shaft , Lower shaft and gears and(Outer section and gearset only, remove the EJ center pinion. EJ 4.11 ring gear and pinion shaft (center section of 2 piece hollow lower shaft only) I believe either combo could work. although each requires parts from 3 transmissions, at least one of which is rare either way. *4.11 ring gear teeth must be ground off on the corner or they will hit the D/R shift collar on either set up *all of this is theoretical......my last attempt was at best experimental and grenaded, so use this advise at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JordanR693 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I appreciate all of your input and patience! I believe Im going to go with combo one, I still have alot of parts to aqcuire but once i have everything Ill be sure to document the swap for the users of USMB to enjoy! Thanks Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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