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crank pulley wobbling?!?! and some strange noise


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66 replies to this topic

#51 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:32 AM

Ok so I just bought a 98 lego today and I noticed the very same thing. :mad:Obviously more will have to be done and looked into but from what I'm reading, the car shouldnt be driven at all. In order for me to get it home (which I'm doing tuesday) I'd have to drive it a good 50 miles. Is this something we should take care of before we leave town or do you think it would survive the trip?

Thanks
Crys



the crank bolt could give up at any moment, you can never tell. but if you tighten it before you drive it you will have a better chance of making it home.

how long has it been this way?
how long since the crank bolt last removed / installed?
how does the car run?
how many miles?

i had one that failed and another that i caught before it failed. on the second one i just had the timing belt done, replaced the pulley and put it back together, ~600$, still driving it. it depends on how much damage.

if yours fails on the way home you will have the added expense of a tow and replacing valves. that doesn't double the cost but it does add to it.

#52 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 03:40 PM

the crank bolt could give up at any moment, you can never tell. but if you tighten it before you drive it you will have a better chance of making it home.

how long has it been this way?
how long since the crank bolt last removed / installed?
how does the car run?
how many miles?

i had one that failed and another that i caught before it failed. on the second one i just had the timing belt done, replaced the pulley and put it back together, ~600$, still driving it. it depends on how much damage.

if yours fails on the way home you will have the added expense of a tow and replacing valves. that doesn't double the cost but it does add to it.


So, if this goes, we're looking at the accessory pulley taking out the
underlying crank pulley?

I went with her to look at the car, and it makes sense because I saw wobble
in the pulley while it was running...
So could this be an easy fix?
As in just picking up an new accessory pulley from a junkyard?
Or just tightening the pulley bolt?

Twitch

#53 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 04:29 PM

So, if this goes, we're looking at the accessory pulley taking out the
underlying crank pulley?

I went with her to look at the car, and it makes sense because I saw wobble
in the pulley while it was running...
So could this be an easy fix?
As in just picking up an new accessory pulley from a junkyard?
Or just tightening the pulley bolt?

Twitch


the visable pulley wobble is the result of the crank bolt being too loose and over time the keyway on the crank and / or the pulley wallow out. over time it will effect the crank sprocket behind the pulley / timing cover. if you catch it early , yes replace the boogered parts and reassemble and torque to spec. but the longer it 'wallows' the more damage. if the crank keyway gets too bad your timing will be off and it may quit running.

my 93 just die one night, but it got glued back together with everything timing related replaced. my ''glue master'' said it was the last time it was ever coming apart. he was right, i wrecked it 12 months later. gluing is not a good solution.

50 miles isn't far in the life of a car. if the timing belt / crank bolt was just done then i wouldn't risk it. on the other hand if it has been getting worse over 20k miles i might. but i'd still put a wrench on it first. it can't hurt.

#54 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 04:35 PM

the visable pulley wobble is the result of the crank bolt being too loose and over time the keyway on the crank and / or the pulley wallow out. over time it will effect the crank sprocket behind the pulley / timing cover. if you catch it early , yes replace the boogered parts and reassemble and torque to spec. but the longer it 'wallows' the more damage. if the crank keyway gets too bad your timing will be off and it may quit running.


Ok, so if its caught early enough we're ok?

50 miles isn't far in the life of a car. if the timing belt / crank bolt was just done then i wouldn't risk it. on the other hand if it has been getting worse over 20k miles i might. but i'd still put a wrench on it first. it can't hurt.


The timing belt was done about 17k ago, is that early enough?

Or should we be looking for a crank sprocket? (thank you for correcting my
terminology)
Cuz the local JY has a few second gen lego's sitting around...
Should we be buying parts and fixing the car as soon as we get it, or waiting
and seeing?

Twitch

#55 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:27 PM

Ok, so if its caught early enough we're ok?



The timing belt was done about 17k ago, is that early enough?

Or should we be looking for a crank sprocket? (thank you for correcting my
terminology)
Cuz the local JY has a few second gen lego's sitting around...
Should we be buying parts and fixing the car as soon as we get it, or waiting
and seeing?

Twitch



fix it, do not delay. you will not know what you need until you take it apart. all of the 90s cars share the same crank sprocket, i think. if i'm wrong ..... some one correct me.

#56 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:36 PM

fix it, do not delay. you will not know what you need until you take it apart. all of the 90s cars share the same crank sprocket, i think. if i'm wrong ..... some one correct me.


OK, thanks.
I'll be making a run monday for the parts.

Crank Sprocket
Accessory Pulley
Possibly a new key
New Bolt

Anything else?

Twitch

#57 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:50 PM

OK, thanks.
I'll be making a run monday for the parts.

Crank Sprocket
Accessory Pulley = harmonic balancer
Possibly a new key = definitely
New Bolt

Anything else?

Twitch



the only other thing to consider is how long before you have to open it up again. at some point the t-belt interval for 2.2L engines went from 60k to 105k. considering the wobble, you might think about completely doing everything inside, t-belt (california spec 105k), all idlers, water pump, all seals including the oil pump. then when you bolt it back up you will not have to go in again for 100k miles. it will cost more but there is a good chance it's the last time you have to mess with it. if the belt or any of the idlers are not 100% you could be looking at more work in 40k miles or so. or if the last belt changer over looked anything besides the torque spec for the crank bolt you could have a headache in 10k miles.

Edited by johnceggleston, 21 November 2009 - 05:56 PM.


#58 GirlWithALegacy

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:20 PM

Ok so it's actually previous owners driving it down, therefore we dont know exactly how long it's been going on. They havent driven it much since they bought a new outback. Also, the spedo&odo cable needs replacing - therefore we have no clue the exact miles on the thing. The car was a steal either way so we're not complaining. Just needing to know what to do. Should I reccomend they try to tighten it before they leave?

Thanks
Crys

#59 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

Ok so it's actually previous owners driving it down, therefore we dont know exactly how long it's been going on. They havent driven it much since they bought a new outback. Also, the spedo&odo cable needs replacing - therefore we have no clue the exact miles on the thing. The car was a steal either way so we're not complaining. Just needing to know what to do. Should I reccomend they try to tighten it before they leave?

Thanks
Crys


don't pay until it is delivered in the same condition as when you test drove it. or re-negotiate the price if it is damaged.

#60 nipper

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 09:56 PM

This can be either a simple repair, or an OMFG HOW MUCH repair. Dont pay them untill it is looked at by someone.

The pulley is held in place by a bolt on the nose of the crankshaft. To keep the pully from just spinning on the shaft, there is a "key" that sits in a keyway (slot) in the nose of the crankshaft and the inside of the pully. When this loosens up, it can ruin the end of the crankshaft. This is not a repair for the faint of heart. Even the experts sometimes shy away from this repair. It may sound simple, but it can be ruinous.

Here is another thread on it
http://www.ultimates...ighlight=keyway

There are quite a few threads on this topic.

nipper

#61 WoodsWagon

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 12:55 AM

The pulley is held in place by a bolt on the nose of the crankshaft. To keep the pully from just spinning on the shaft, there is a "key" that sits in a keyway (slot) in the nose of the crankshaft and the inside of the pully. When this loosens up, it can ruin the end of the crankshaft.


The key in the crank nose is not there to keep the pully from spinning on the shaft. It's only function is alligning the crank sproket and pully on the crank at TDC. With the crank bolt properly tightened, all the force transmitted though the sprocket and pulley goes through the static friction bond between the faces of the sproket, pulley, and crank flange. This is why the key, pully, sprocket and crank keyway get destroyed when the bolt is loose. None of those components are designed to transfer the power through the key.

You could theoretically run the car without the key installed if you lined the crank sproket up on the crank and tightened the bolt without rotating the crank.

When the bolt loosens, the pully gets rouned on the face that contacts the crank sproket and the bolt head. When you retighten the bolt, it squishes the no longer flat faces together. They settle over time and the bolt comes loose again. If you have a wobbly pully due to the crank bolt being loose, you need to replace the crank pully, bolt, key, and crank sproket. The problem will come back if you don't. You usually have to dress the crank with a file around the keyway so the new sproket slips on, sometimes you need to grind the keyway so that the new key will fit down in. It doesn't have to be perfect, all it's there for is to hold the sproket and pully lined up while you tighten the bolt.


I've seen too many subarus listed as "needing the crank replaced" due to the keyway being trashed when it's not the keyway that transmits the power so it doesn't matter if the keyway is beat.

#62 1997reduxe

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

Just my two cents, but when I did my timing belt a while back, i actually thought I'd gotten the pulley on properly, when in fact it wasnt even on the key, which left an actual imprint into the backside of the pulley. Wobbling started soon after of course. But thank God it wasnt that damaged, and reinstalled.
Just sent a message to greenleg88 that there is one of these pulleys on ebay right now.

#63 djmark7

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 10:26 PM

98 leg wagon, my pulley bolt became so loose i could take it out by hand tightened it back up, seems all is well now, but i keep my eye on it 243k miles

#64 FleaDog

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

Noticed my 95 legacy with 185K crank pulley is wobbling and making a cricket like noise. Ordered a new woodruff key and bolt from the dealer as well as a new dorman crank pulley from rock auto for $33. Also will do new belts while I'm at it. Will shoot a video of it and post it up shortly. Will attempt the change when all parts arrived fingers crossed.:rolleyes:

#65 FleaDog

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

And here they are:

http://s126.photobuc...zpsbe793869.mp4

http://s126.photobuc...zps4ae7d239.mp4

#66 FleaDog

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

BTW - new woodruff key comes with the dorman crank pulley I ordered from rock auto


Edited by FleaDog, 08 February 2013 - 09:43 PM.


#67 FleaDog

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

OK got the the new crank pulley in and it is still wobbling same amount but the noise is gone.  I also replaced the PS/Alt drive belt. So I am not sure what the noise was coming from.  Could have been the old belt, the belt not under enough tension.  I did manage to break the piece of hardare that the tensioner bolt threads into on the AC compressor tension pulley with my impact.  There was a lot of corrosion on the threads so shoulda sprayed them down first.  So without the AC comp/belt until then (its winter oh well).

 

Crank pulley bolt came off fine,  crank pulley didnt want to.  Needed to get creative using a long pry bar with the tip under the edge of the crank pulley levered carefully on the alternator above.  That along with some penetrating spray and wiggling it back forth gently and it eventually gave.  Woodruff key looke decent so I didnt fuss with trying to fish it out.  The existing crank pulley keyway slot looked fine too. So I guess its wobbling because of the crank?






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