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wont start, carb issue? STARTS! won't idle, front axle replacement?


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12 replies to this topic

#1 lyons

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:03 PM

New to the forum, what a great resource! Thanks in advance for any help.

Just picked up an 87 gl wagon, 1.8 carbureted, for $200! Was running, but running rough. Rather unknown history. Passed emmissions with flying colors!
Replaced air filter, oil change, spark plugs, spark wires, dist cap, drive belts, radiator hoses, water pump bypass hose, timing belts, oil pump, carb accel pump, float needle, carb to intake manifold gasket, and a few vacuum hoses. Tried to start, nothing, sounded weird...Couldn't figure why it wouldn't, so I tried cranking it A LOT (oops.)

Called a soobie mech, told me the chiltons i was using had the wrong timing belt replace procedure (they called for both cam marks to be up), so i set the passenger side cam 180 off (down), made sure the drivers side cam mark was up, and the crank on the 3 timing marks. tried to start, still nothing, though it didn't sound weird anymore. Smelled a lot of gas! Once again i cranked it a lot, not knowing...

Pulled off the airbox to check carb, noticed it was pouring a lot of gas out of a tube on the chamber towards the front of the car. Thought maybe the float chamber was flooding, and the ton of excess gas was flooding out the cylinders. Realized that I had been cranking the engine a lot and so a lot of gas had been entering the cylinders. Re-checked the float measurements per the instructions in the rebuild kit. Checked the float needle, realized the one I had just replaced was different than the old one, so I put the old one back in, since it looked pretty good. Had a friend over, who said he had never seen the tab on the float sit in between the small metal clip and the needle. We put it above the metal clip. Engine started up, revved really high, poured LOTS of white smoke out the exhaust, then died. Wouldn't start again, though it would sputter a bit if pumping accelerator.

Didn't know if somehow I had blown a head gasket when I put the timing belts on backwards (due to chiltons procedure), so drained the oil. No coolant, it seems, but really gassy. Decided maybe the gas I had been pouring into the cylinders (because of the carb)had broken the seal on the rings, and gas had gotten into the crankcase. Replaced oil and filter, still no start at all.

Took carb back apart, no gas in float chamber. Put float tab back between clip and needle as it was originally. Car started up, revved high, still blew white smoke out exhaust, but less...then died within a rew seconds. Noticed gas was pouring out of overflow(?) tube again.

SOOO. Am thinking with the carb float tab above the clip, it doesn't get gas (the float chamber being empty), with it in between the tab and needle, it floods (the gas pouring out that tube). Does that make sense? And that the smoke out the exhaust might be built up fuel in the cat, or exhaust?

Any ideas?
Does anyone know where the tab should sit (in between clip and needle?), what the adjustments should be for the float, and why it's flooding out?
Or might it be something else?

Am kinda lost at this point...Thanks!

Edited by lyons, 27 May 2009 - 03:06 PM.


#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:31 PM

The metal clip serves only to attach the float needle to the float so that when the float drops it pulls the needle down with it.

I would double check your timing - both valve and ignition. If you rotated the cams several times then likely the ignition timing is off. The distributor is driven off the drivers side cam.

GD

#3 Jerry DeMoss

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:53 PM

If you feel like it you can call ccr in denver for advise. Their number is 303-293-9230

Good to see another colorado person on here with an old subaru.

#4 lyons

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:25 PM

Well the distributor points to 1 when #1 cyl is at TDC, I have spark on all 4 plugs, and the cams are 180 from eachother. I'm convinced it's a carb thing. Why else would it start and run well for a few seconds, then bog out?

Is the tube that faces up at a 45 deg angle on the carb chamber, closest to the front of the car, the overflow tube for the float chamber? Why is there a large flow of gas coming out of it? It seems to me that this is flooding the engine...right? How do I correct this?

Thanks for the advice!

#5 ferox

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:35 PM

Is the tube that faces up at a 45 deg angle on the carb chamber, closest to the front of the car, the overflow tube for the float chamber? Why is there a large flow of gas coming out of it? It seems to me that this is flooding the engine...right? How do I correct this?

Thanks for the advice!


I think the tube you are referring to is the Air Vent Pipe. It should not have any gas flowing out of it. Is the fuel line attached to the solenoid? If not, then I think either your float is not installed/adjusted properly or the needle and seat are just completely shot. Is your fuel return line blocked? These are my guesses, but I am sure GD or someone can give a more experienced diagnosis. Pictures would be helpful if possible.

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:34 PM

Yes - it does sound like the float needle and seat are not doing their job of stopping the fuel flow. You need to dissasemble the carb and inspect your needle, seat and float. Something isn't right.

Even if the return line were blocked, the fuel pressure is only about 2 psi so the needle would shut it off without issue.

GD

#7 lyons

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 04:28 PM

I checked out the ideas you all pointed out. The return line is clogged. Blowing into diagnosed that. However, if I blow into where the main fuel line comes into the carb, when the top is off the main body of the carb, and the needle is seated, it is impossible to get any air through (when the return line is off), meaning the needle is seating just fine...and if you raise the float air comes through into the float chamber...I think what's happening is when I reassemble the carb, the float is somehow not raising or falling properly. Which would explain why sometimes after I put it back together, it pours gas out the air vent pipe, other times it doesn't get any gas in the float chamber. I'll see if I can somehow figure how to get the float to move when it's reassembled...I wish there were a sight glass...

Is it critical to get the return line unblocked? I'm guessing that might involve dropping the tank, grrrr...

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 06:58 PM

Is it critical to get the return line unblocked? I'm guessing that might involve dropping the tank, grrrr...


Probably not. I've run Weber's without the return line using the stock pump and never had any trouble.

GD

#9 ferox

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Posted 24 May 2009 - 11:23 PM

I wish there were a sight glass...

Is it critical to get the return line unblocked? I'm guessing that might involve dropping the tank, grrrr...


I guess it missed whether this is a Hitachi or a Weber. If a Hitachi, did EA82 carbs not have a sight glass?

Anyway, I did not explain myself clearly before, I didn't mean to divert your attention from the needle, float, and seat by mentioning the return line. I only brought it up because it sounded like you had a lot of gas coming out of the air vent...if your return line was plugged and the float valve wasn't sealing it seems like you would have more gas coming out than if the return line wasn't plugged.

I would definitely try to get it unplugged (try a Mityvac), but that is not the problem with the float chamber.

The only thing I can think of that would not allow the float to move freely is the thin strip of gasket around the top of the float chamber unless the needle is actually binding in the seat or something. Good luck

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 01:16 AM

unless the needle is actually binding in the seat or something. Good luck


I had one of my EA81 Hitachi's stick almost completely closed about a dozen times before I finally figured out what was going on. It would happen anytime - at a stop light or cruising down the freeway - hot, cold.... didn't matter.

Finally replaced the crappy aftermarket needle and seat that came in the rubuild kit that I had used with an OEM set from another carb and the issue never returned.

I would say there's a good chance you are having a similar issue.

Just one of the reasons people have come to hate the stock carbs. Also because they are gutless and a waste of perfectly good aluminium..... but I digress.

GD

#11 lyons

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:24 PM

I put the original needle and seat back in the carb in case that was the issue, it's still happening, tho. The needle seems to be seating and opening just fine, not sticking at all (at least bench testing it). It's a Hitachi, and I dont see a sight glass...

Maybe it is the gasket. I'll see what I can do, and get back to you all.. Thanks! Progress!

#12 lyons

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 01:57 PM

Got it running! Don't know how, but tweeked the float more than a few times, and it finally isn't flooding or cranking dry. It doesn't idle, unless you give it a bit of throttle, but I'm guessing that's a way easier fix. Any ideas?

Next on the list - a front half axle: how hard for me to replace, what would you recommend (used, remanufactured), anything besides socket wrenches to make it happen?

Edited by lyons, 27 May 2009 - 03:06 PM.


#13 TomRhere

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 04:04 AM

You may need to adjust the fuel/air mixture and/or idle speed screws.

As for axle replacement, good info here....
http://www.ultimates...5158#post615158




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