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EJ25 DOHC engine sealants/oil pump,oil pan, orings


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11 replies to this topic

#1 98sub2500leg

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 12:46 PM

Does anyone know or have any information to the following:

What is the manufacturer name, part of the Grey gasket sealant used on the oilpan?

For the rocker cover gaskets, Endwrench says to use 3 bond 1215 or equiv.; is this a high temperature grease?

It looks like Subaru used RTV to seal the oil pump housing. The dealer only had Motorcraft RTV and said that is what they use on all their repairs, does this sound right.

What is copper spray and where is it normally used, if at all.

There is some type of high temperature non drying oil that was coated on each cylinder head bolt. Does anyone know what this is and where to get it?

Should the oil pump and oil pan "O" rings be greased, if so with what.

#2 davebugs

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:11 PM

Permatex Ultra Grey


You need to clarify the rocket cover gasket question.l You mean in the corners by the cam caps? If so - the same ultra grey


The only tube of stuff you need is ultra-grey.

No need for copper spray for the HG's - assuming the heads and engine are fine and you're using Suby gaskets. SHort of that I don't think anything will help you - including copper spray.

No special oil for the bolts. Just engine oil (Not even assembly lube).

If I need a little lube for Orings - depending on where I use petroleum jelly if in contact with oil/fuel. Generic KY if in contact with water (thermostat Oring).

Others will chime in with corrections of their personal favorites.

#3 98sub2500leg

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:33 PM

You need to clarify the rocket cover gasket question.l You mean in the corners by the cam caps? If so - the same ultra grey


The only tube of stuff you need is ultra-grey.

No need for copper spray for the HG's - assuming the heads and engine are fine and you're using Suby gaskets. SHort of that I don't think anything will help you - including copper spray.

No special oil for the bolts. Just engine oil (Not even assembly lube).

If I need a little lube for Orings - depending on where I use petroleum jelly if in contact with oil/fuel. Generic KY if in contact with water (thermostat Oring).

Others will chime in with corrections of their personal favorites.[/QUOTE]

Yes it the corners of the cam caps. The only reason why I mentioned the copper gasket (I believe it is spray) is because I was told by a few Sub mechanics they use it, but that doesn't mean much. The dealer sold me on some red Motorcraft RTV sealant and said it is what they use. I can't find specs on it and would rather not use it unless I know. The Permatex ultra grey I know is good for high temp(625 deg) and high torque high vib. applications.
I would never use gasket sealer on the HG's and the like.
Not sure on the vasaline though, I was always told not to use it on rubber as it has petrolium in it that dries it out. Apparently, KY is not made of pertroliums and is ok to use, but not sure.
Years ago I used a really good high temperature high pressure sealant from Dow but can't remember the pt#.

I got the 5 #2 phillips bolts out of the oil pump but having trouble removing the crank seal from the oil pump. It looks like the material is viton. I tried carefully pulling the inside edge of the rubber, but it pulls apart. Prying it out
doesn't seem like a good option. Too much chance of gouging the machined surfaces.
Suggestions are welcome.

#4 bgambino

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:02 PM

Not sure on the vasaline though, I was always told not to use it on rubber as it has petrolium in it that dries it out.

I am in the rubber business. Petroleum (oils)will not dry out a rubber. Oil contact on the wrong rubber types will cause the rubber to absorb it and start swelling. Vitons are the best for oil contact...nitriles (buna N) and then neoprenes.

Here is a link for a tool to pull seals safely
http://www.autobarn....haftpuller.html

#5 98sub2500leg

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 04:23 PM

I am planning on using the Permatex Ultra grey for the pan gasket. Do you press fit the crank and cam seals in with high temp lube or possibly a thin film of oil?
How about the oil pump and pan "O" ring's.

On the water pump, I bought the Sub. gasket. Since I am using the gasket, do you normally apply dry or thin coat with lube?

#6 davebugs

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 07:47 PM

WP gasket - dry. Yet another reason to use the OEM gasket.

Orings oil or vaseline (vaseline for the oil pump).

Outside of crank and cam seals I leave dry, assembly lube on the inside.

All my personal preference.

Other may tell you theirs.

#7 porcupine73

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:29 AM

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#8 98sub2500leg

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:36 PM

Permatex Ultra Grey


You need to clarify the rocket cover gasket question.l You mean in the corners by the cam caps? If so - the same ultra grey


The only tube of stuff you need is ultra-grey.

No need for copper spray for the HG's - assuming the heads and engine are fine and you're using Suby gaskets. SHort of that I don't think anything will help you - including copper spray.

No special oil for the bolts. Just engine oil (Not even assembly lube).

If I need a little lube for Orings - depending on where I use petroleum jelly if in contact with oil/fuel. Generic KY if in contact with water (thermostat Oring).

Others will chime in with corrections of their personal favorites.


Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion on the ultra grey. Subaru originally used a thin bead of grey high temp gasket material around the pan, which never leaked. I am assuming they used ultra grey or equiv.

Not sure why Subaru used red RTV to seal the oil pump. The grey is rated for 625 deg and the red is around 400 deg. Although neither one leaked, there must be a reason. Some believe that using RTV sealants around the pan or oil pump is risky since excess squeezeout material can break off inside and clog ports. Others prefer the anerobics, which seal in the absence of air (basically Loctite). I bought both and believe that either will probably work fine, but I don't want to take chances here especially since the anerobic doesn't have any temperature rating.

When you apply this, do you bead it or spread it out after beading it? Is there a precise way to make sure you use just enough to do the job without getting oversqueezing into the pan or oil pump?

#9 98sub2500leg

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 12:45 PM

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Much apprecaited info. There is about a 3/16" of some type of black foam material on the lower trans. plate and I believe a small 3"-4" section around the rear timing covers. Any idea what they used here?

#10 davebugs

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:34 PM

I run a very small bead around the groove in the baffle plate and oil pump. I always do a look around bolt holes.

These are basically machined surfaces so not much is needed - it's not like you're really filling a gap. The smallest opening that you can cut on the tip. It's pretty stiff stuff when you're tryinig to squeeze it through such a small hole.

I have another tip with a slightly larger opening I use for cam caps, oil pans, etc.

I think folks usually use too much. Whether it causes problems or not I don't know. It does waste material and look ugly, and I can see how it could cause harm - I've just never seen it.

I always let the ultra-grey set overnight. Infact when I pull an engine (or have one delivered) I do the baffle plate before bolting it to the engine stand to do the rest of the work. This also gives you the benefit to tilt the engine to assist with no oil coming out to be able to clean it better and have the engine surface dry when applying the baffle plate.

#11 2.5GL

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:50 PM

Others prefer the anerobics, which seal in the absence of air (basically Loctite). I bought both and believe that either will probably work fine, but I don't want to take chances here especially since the anerobic doesn't have any temperature rating.


Been using Permatex red anaerobic sealant for years, (oil pump, baffle cover, DOHC 2.5 cam caps) have not had a leak to date. I have pulled excess RTV from within oil passages, (yes, the cams were seized, on DOHC 2.5) usually from WAY over do-ing it. Most situations only need a layer as thick as a few pieces of paper. If you keep it thin RTV is fine, if you like to glob it on, use the anaerobic stuff. Now, why didn't the filter catch it? It might have gone into the passage when the pump was removed last...

Edited by 2.5GL, 28 May 2009 - 02:52 PM.
content


#12 98sub2500leg

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 11:21 AM

I run a very small bead around the groove in the baffle plate and oil pump. I always do a look around bolt holes.

These are basically machined surfaces so not much is needed - it's not like you're really filling a gap. The smallest opening that you can cut on the tip. It's pretty stiff stuff when you're tryinig to squeeze it through such a small hole.

I have another tip with a slightly larger opening I use for cam caps, oil pans, etc.

I think folks usually use too much. Whether it causes problems or not I don't know. It does waste material and look ugly, and I can see how it could cause harm - I've just never seen it.

I always let the ultra-grey set overnight. Infact when I pull an engine (or have one delivered) I do the baffle plate before bolting it to the engine stand to do the rest of the work. This also gives you the benefit to tilt the engine to assist with no oil coming out to be able to clean it better and have the engine surface dry when applying the baffle plate.


Thanks again Dave,

I also agree I believe some could use too much, which would lead to excessive squeezeout. I have examined several areas where the factory used Grey for the areas of oil contact, and they had several spots where even they had squeezeout but haven't seen any clogged ports. I believe this could possibly be an issue if one were to lay it on too heavy.




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