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Help - dropped a tool into TC bung hole (Legacy 2.2)


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22 replies to this topic

#1 etc

etc

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:20 PM

I was trying to remove the crankshaft bolt. I accessed the bung hole, tried to hold the TC with a 3/8" extension but it was too short and dropped right into it. Now I am having a hard time turning the bolt, at times it goes easy but in one spot it kind of gets stuck.

Do I have to remove the transmission now or what?



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#2 Cougar

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:23 PM

You may be able to put a thin magnet on the disk and then turn the shaft to see if you can pick up the extension.

#3 etc

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:31 PM

I tried a telescopic magnet to no avail, because it doesn't flex.
I need a good flex telescoping magnet so it can bend going in.

#4 ericem

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:44 PM

Ya try those flexible magnetic grabbers. They have the claw ones to which may work if the magnetic one is not strong enough. I bought a magnetic grabber though and i am pretty sure it was strong enough to lift the weight of a extension. Sucks to hear though. Although I am wondering if you could remove the flywheel access plate under the motor? If you look closely you should find it . With my car it is missing I noticed. If I recall it is only 2 bolts. I am not sure if you can access it without removing the crossmember though.

#5 etc

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:56 PM

Ya try those flexible magnetic grabbers. They have the claw ones to which may work if the magnetic one is not strong enough. I bought a magnetic grabber though and i am pretty sure it was strong enough to lift the weight of a extension. Sucks to hear though. Although I am wondering if you could remove the flywheel access plate under the motor? If you look closely you should find it . With my car it is missing I noticed. If I recall it is only 2 bolts. I am not sure if you can access it without removing the crossmember though.


Where do you find a good flex magnetic grabber?

Second, can you confirm that removing the flywheel access plate under the motor will get me there?

If I have to remove the crossmember, how difficult is that?

#6 avk

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:08 AM

The bellhousing is open on the bottom where it hangs below the engine and you can see the drive plate. They eliminated the cover sometime in early 1990s. Is there any chance you can get the extension bar out that way, or is it too thick to make its way through?

Edited by avk, 31 May 2009 - 11:10 AM.


#7 etc

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:06 PM

Doesn't look like I can get anything in there from the bottom.

#8 etc

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:13 PM

If the magnetic pickup fails, is it possible to unbolt the torque converter and the bellhousing, then pull the engine foreward just far enough to remove the tool?

It might save the trouble of disconnecting most things from the engine.

#9 ron917

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:29 PM

You have to be able to turn the engine to get all of the torque converter bolts off. Normally, you reach the bolts through the bung hole.

#10 johnceggleston

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:33 PM

the tool you dropped is inbetween the flex plate (fly wheel) and the rear of the engine. nothing is going to give more room except removing the flex plate, meaning you would have to pull the engine.

so either the tool dropped to the bottom, or it got hung up on the way.
why did you say it was a no go from below? what did you see when you looked? if the tool dropped to the bottom, you may, may have luck lifting the engine a little and fishing it out.

what did you see when you looked at the bottom of the tc/flex plate?

got a pic?

#11 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:26 PM

I have never had to pull the bottom cover plate, so I wouldn't know that
method.

But a fairly easy way to get something out of the torque
converter/flexplate housing is to pull the radiator, or put a piece of carboard in front of it.
Then unbolt the engine from the tranny, the flexplate from the torque
converter, and the engine mounts.
The pitching stopper only needs to be loosened.
The intake tube will need to be removed so it doesn't get tweaked or
broken.
Then lift the engine with a jack and rock it forward.
You may have enough room with the rad in there to pull the engine far enough to get to the bottom of the housing, but I highly recommend
pulling the rad, so as not to damage it.
It may seem like a lot of work, but its actually not that much work and can
be done and put back together in 30min to an hour.

Twitch

#12 etc

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 11:05 PM

Actually, the radiator is already out as I am replacing it.
I planned to do a lot of things like T-belts, W-pump, and such. So a lot of things are already disconnected.

I will give it a shot with the flex magnetic grabber device, if that doesn't work, will follow the above advice.

#13 Turbone

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 01:52 AM

You find all kinds of wierd things in used cars.
On the end of the hose is a magnet, found it in my Brat a few years ago.
I was told its for cows. Sometimes they ingest metal out in the fields and the best way to get it out is to have them swallow a magnet. It all comes out the other end.
So, what happened to you, happened to me once.
I had a rare stroke of genius and made this.
It works like a charm. If I can find the other magnets, I can ship you one.
Posted Image

You may want to try and go thru where the starter mounts up, its a bigger hole.

#14 mdjdc

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:22 AM

I dropped a flex plate bolt down there once. If you get right on top of the motor and look down you will most likely be able to see the extension you dropped. It is stuck on a casting shelf at the back of the block. Use a strong magnet and you will be able to get it out. If you are familar with the "sizzle"magnets that kids smack together I would use one of those. They coe in a variety of sizes, but they are very strong. You can even put one on a string and fish it out.

Good luck

#15 ron917

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:03 PM

When I did an engine swap, I was afraid of dropping a bolt or socket down there. I stuffed one end of a shop rag into the hole, leaving the TC bolt exposed but no way it could fall down the hole.

#16 etc

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:00 PM

I got a magnetic puller and no luck with it. I tried every which way possible, at every angle. Do not see where it went either.

Afraid have to move to the next step now.

Any good link for 2.2L engine removal? Step by step for idiots kind of things. Lots of pictures.

#17 Cougar

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:49 AM

Milwaukee makes a bore scope though it is around 160 dollars. If you can fit the end down inside there you should be able to see where it is at and pick it up.

#18 etc

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 02:12 AM

Interesting....

Update, got a couple of magnetic pullers off Ebay -- no success.

Question, if the short 3/8" extension dropped all the way to the bottom of the torque converter, maybe it's just settled at the very bottom without disturbing anything? I explored all the space I could get to with the magnetic pullers and it's nowhere to the side, I think it has to have hit the bottom.
The two magnetic pullers I have are just not long enough, I think I need an extra long one.

I think that the tension I feel when moving the crank bolt is maybe a cycle of the engine? Not the extension interfering with rotation?

Also keep in mind that I have removed a lot of the accessories like belts, alternator, hoses, radiator... so if I have to move the engine forward a few inches, it shouldn't be too hard?

What's involved in that? Engine mount bolts, torque converter bolts - what else?

#19 etc

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 02:14 AM

I have never had to pull the bottom cover plate, so I wouldn't know that
method.

But a fairly easy way to get something out of the torque
converter/flexplate housing is to pull the radiator, or put a piece of carboard in front of it.
Then unbolt the engine from the tranny, the flexplate from the torque
converter, and the engine mounts.
The pitching stopper only needs to be loosened.
The intake tube will need to be removed so it doesn't get tweaked or
broken.
Then lift the engine with a jack and rock it forward.
You may have enough room with the rad in there to pull the engine far enough to get to the bottom of the housing, but I highly recommend
pulling the rad, so as not to damage it.
It may seem like a lot of work, but its actually not that much work and can
be done and put back together in 30min to an hour.

Twitch


OK, that makes sense. I am looking at the Factory Service Manual (pdf copy) and they go into detail on this. (Section 2-11)

I guess I don't have to do all of this, as I am not really removing the engine, just rocking it forward a bit? For example I don't have to remove the AC?

Edited by etc, 14 June 2009 - 02:30 AM.


#20 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:02 PM

OK, that makes sense. I am looking at the Factory Service Manual (pdf copy) and they go into detail on this. (Section 2-11)

I guess I don't have to do all of this, as I am not really removing the engine, just rocking it forward a bit? For example I don't have to remove the AC?


Correct.
None of the accessories have to come out.
And some thing I forgot to mention is that you will need to remove the nuts
that are on the engine mounts. (but its kinda given, right?)
And what I did, was lift up the engine so that the mounts cleared the
crossmember and moved the engine forward until it released the tranny.

Twitch

#21 88RxTuner

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 03:52 PM

I have never had to pull an engine to remove an item from behind the flexplate. Generally rocking the engine back and forth will be sufficient to dislodge item and it will fall out the bottom, either onto the crossmember or to the ground. Check and see, your engine MAY have a cover plate on the bottom. If you cannot SEE the ring gear on the flexplate and the bottom of the torque converter when you look up at the bottom, you will SEE a sheet metal cover there. There are 2 6mm bolts which hold the cover on, these are sometimes tricky to access. If you need to remove the cover, it is simple to remove the lower engine mount nuts and the torque strut, then simply lift the engine a couple inches without disconnecting anything.

In the event you have to pull the engine, it's fairly simple to do so.
Access and remove the air box, intake tube, and torque strut.
Depending on your engine, you will have either 4 or 8 bellhousing bolts including 2 studs/ nuts all the way at the bottom. If you have 8, there will be one under the starter that requires you to remove the starter to access it.
Remove these 8 fasteners.
Access and remove 4 flexplate to torque converter bolts. This requires you to turn the engine over. Always rotate clockwise when viewed from the front (i.e. same as engine turns when running) to prevent slack in the timing belt and possible skipped cam timing. Yes, this is quite possible.
Fit a pry-bar, screwdriver, or whatever else BETWEEN the flex plate and the torque converter. Gently pry the converter back into the transmission to disengage it from the flexplate. Careful to do this gently, as you do not want to bend or damage either piece.
Remove the lower engine mount nuts that come through the crossmember. This may or may not require you to remove the exhaust Y pipe (nuts hold the Y pipe onto the cylinder head. )
At this point, you should be able to SLIGHTLY lfit the engine to get the engine mount studs out of the crossmember holes. This will allow you to rock the engine forward about 1.5 inches and still have the engine mounts sitting on the crossmember, so the engine wont fall.
If at this point you still have not recovered your item, it is a matter of wiring harnesses and vacuum/radiator/fuel hoses that will be obviously holding the engine back and the engine comes right out.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
88RxTuner

#22 johnceggleston

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 11:37 PM

I have never had to pull an engine to remove an item from behind the flexplate. Generally rocking the engine back and forth will be sufficient to dislodge item and it will fall out the bottom, either onto the crossmember or to the ground. Check and see, your engine MAY have a cover plate on the bottom. If you cannot SEE the ring gear on the flexplate and the bottom of the torque converter when you look up at the bottom, you will SEE a sheet metal cover there. There are 2 6mm bolts which hold the cover on, these are sometimes tricky to access. If you need to remove the cover, it is simple to remove the lower engine mount nuts and the torque strut, then simply lift the engine a couple inches without disconnecting anything.

88RxTuner


what he said.

is the car in the driveway, garage, or in the grass? look under the car. can you see the ring gear? try removing the jack plate.

#23 etc

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 09:53 PM

I have never had to pull an engine to remove an item from behind the flexplate. Generally rocking the engine back and forth will be sufficient to dislodge item and it will fall out the bottom, either onto the crossmember or to the ground. Check and see, your engine MAY have a cover plate on the bottom. If you cannot SEE the ring gear on the flexplate and the bottom of the torque converter when you look up at the bottom, you will SEE a sheet metal cover there. There are 2 6mm bolts which hold the cover on, these are sometimes tricky to access. If you need to remove the cover, it is simple to remove the lower engine mount nuts and the torque strut, then simply lift the engine a couple inches without disconnecting anything.



OK, I will try this just. I have the Factory Service Manual coming in shortly so that should be of help.

I will take a few pics from the bottom.




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