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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Brake pedal very soft


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20 replies to this topic

#1 heep70

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 12:39 AM

I just put on new pads on all four corners and bled the lines. The peddle was mushy before, so thought changing the pads and bleeding would fix the problem. The peddle in still very soft. It almost goes to the floor when pressed firmly. The car stops, but not like I would think it should. Brakes will not lock up. I have lots of ebrake. Hillstopper works great.

I am thinking the M.C. it bad. Anything else it might be. Thanks

#2 torxxx

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 01:03 AM

You have e-brake because its a cable brake

Rebleed your brakes, and make sure the brake booster is working properly

which order did you bleed the brakeS?

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) it goes front pass, back driver front driver, back pass.

#3 calebz

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 01:13 AM

As Torxxx stated, bleed the brakes in an X pattern.. might try bleeding the master cylinder as well.

#4 Setright

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 03:55 AM

The cross pattern is optimal, but sometimes it's easier to lift one end of the car at a time. As long as you bleed the fronts first, there shouldn't be any problems.

Did the fluid come from a fresh, sealed container? Might try another fluid, Castrol DOT4 "Response" is the canine's testicles.

If the problem persists, your MC piston seals are probably leaking.

#5 torxxx

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 04:59 AM

you dont need to jack your car up to bleed the brakes

#6 Setright

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 06:21 AM

Torxx, do you drive a WRX? With bleeder screws on the outside of the caliper, accessible through the rims?

I don't, and I need to take my wheels off to bleed the brakes.

#7 mdjdc

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 08:16 AM

Torxx I had the same problem on my GL-10 and the problem was a bad front caliper. I replaced them both and now the pedal is hig and tight. It is a job to replace them both, but there is no real way to tell which one is bad. Good Luck

#8 LostWater

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:02 AM

I had the same symptons on several of my subies and almost all - it was the master cylinder.

If bleeding doen't work, get a remanufactured master cylinder, prolly ~$25-$40.

It fixed that problem in mine and an easy install too, just be sure you bleed again when done.

The fancy vacuum bleeders are like $40 at Harbor Freight if you find yourself bleeding all the time by yourself.

#9 Skip

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:08 AM

Please let me begin by saying, I do not want to get into a urinating contest.
I have always been taught to
a) start at the wheel furthest from the master cyl. (being the pass rear) and work toward the MC.
B) on some calipers raising the end of the vehicle can put the bleed nipple in a position to allow air pockets to excape more readily.
c) never push the brake pedal down to a point where the pistons will travel over accumulated debris in the MC.
d) if possible use a vacuum or pressure system rather than depressing the brake pedal (see "c" above),
if using a vacuum system, remove bleed nipple and cover the treads with a thick grease.
This will prevent air from being drawn in.
e) use a clear hose on the bleed nipple into a clear jar, thus making it possible to observe air leaving the system.

As I have had very little luck bleeding Subaru systems
the "old conventional way".
I have a spare MC cap with an air fitting drilled and tapped into it.
By appling a regulated air pressure of approx. 10 psi, bleeding is as simple as putting the clear hose on the nipple and loosening it approx 1 turn. Keep an eye on the fluid in the MC.
BUT I perfer to use the pictured vacuum pump setup
Hope this help.
And change your brake fluid, it is hrdoscopic

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#10 heep70

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:17 AM

I have never heard of bleeding them in an X pattern.

Front pass, back driver, front driver, back pass."

I have always bleed from furthest away to closed to M.C. I will try the X pattern. I do bleed by myself. I fill a jar with fluid, run a vac line from the bleeder valve into the jar, then I pump the peddle till I see clear fluid come out the hose. I also check the M.C. while doing this process to make sure it is full of fluid.

The engine stayed at the same idle when I pressed the peddle, so I am thinking the booster is OK (no vac leaks). The callapers, ???????? They cleaned up nice, but I did take them apart.

Thanks for responing

#11 heep70

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 09:28 AM

I will check into one of them vac system. My buddy down the street might have one. I have bled many brake systems by using the fliud in a jar way. Never used a vac system before. I am still pointing my finger at the M.C. I will spend some more time on it today.

#12 MilesFox

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 10:40 AM

bleed the master cylinder too. subaurs can be tricky with this, even with my experience

#13 Nug

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 11:36 AM

On my Vw it turned out to be degraded flexible hoses. Replaced them, and pedal went nice and rock hard.

#14 torxxx

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 12:33 PM

Subarus are supposed to be bled in the X pattern because of the braking system. Subaru brakes are plumbed together to that if you bust a front passenger brake, the back drivers goes out with it so you still have front drivers side and passenger back brakes.

Its Subaru's way of a safety system on the brakes.
I buddy of mine worked at a subaru shop for a few years and thats how he told me to do it.

And as far as bad calipers go, inspect all the rubber seals on it.
Of any of them are cracked, they need to be replaced.

I think the calipers are supposed to be replaced every 25k miles anyways.

#15 Skip

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 12:58 PM

Torxx, you are correct on the dual diagonal brake system but almost every car on the highway has them not just Subaru. They became the standard circa 1967. Please see this link if you question that
http://www.raybestos...ing/cpt-006.htm
This does change the order in bleeding the system.
If you are in doubt of this statement here is a .pdf file you can digest.
http://www.champion-.../29_BleedBr.pdf
From this link and may I quote
Many front wheel drive vehicles are equipped with a dual diagonal brake system and require a different bleeding
sequence .The recommended procedure for
this type of system is to bleed in diagonal pairs starting with
the right rear
and left front, then the left rear, and finally, the
right front.

Here we see I was incorrect as I said -old school training. The fact still resides in the bleeding of the furtherst first in the system. Starting with the one furthest from the MC.
Hope this helps


#16 torxxx

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 02:44 PM

hehe I believe ya skip

I didnt know it was all cars.. I figured ABS brakes would have a completely different system since its all computerized

#17 junkyardgabe

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 08:15 PM

i'm having the same problem and i've replacethe calipers and have bleed the complete system 5 or 6 time it's the mc

#18 Hank Roberts

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Posted 16 July 2005 - 05:22 PM

i'm having the same problem and i've replacethe calipers and have bleed the complete system 5 or 6 time it's the mc


So, did that fix yours?

#19 Qman

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 07:56 PM

Cars with rear drum brakes must have the shoes adjusted correctly or the pedal will travel alot.

#20 Hank Roberts

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 10:26 AM

Mine
http://www.ultimates...59&goto=newpost

now finally (after 4 months of looking) has one problem identified -- one hose was, once everything got heated up in hot weather, swelling up like a balloon.

And it's intermittent. Must be a delamination inside the hose actimg like a valve.

#21 Hondasucks

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 02:33 PM

I have never heard of bleeding them in an X pattern.

Front pass, back driver, front driver, back pass."

I have always bleed from furthest away to closed to M.C. I will try the X pattern. I do bleed by myself. I fill a jar with fluid, run a vac line from the bleeder valve into the jar, then I pump the peddle till I see clear fluid come out the hose. I also check the M.C. while doing this process to make sure it is full of fluid.


This is true in standard RWD vehicles where the front brakes and rear brakes are separate, but on a Subaru and most other FWD cars, the brake circuits are diagonal, so if one fails you always have at least one front brake that works. Bleeding on a Subaru is as follows:

Passenger rear, driver front, driver rear, passenger front. Sometimes you have to bleed the MC first. easy if it has bleeder screws, but if it doesn't you can either bench bleed it or just loosen the lines (start with the one closest ot the front of the car) and have someone push and hold the brake pedal, then close the line, do this until no more air comes out. If the brakes won't bleed, you probably have air in the master cylinder.

And you think the Subaru is tough, try bleeding brakes on a 68 Polara with all wheel drums that's been sitting for basically 25 years without breaking any of the bleeder screws...
lol




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