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Oil pump test, oil flow test, new HG reuse


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15 replies to this topic

#1 98sub2500leg

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 11:14 PM

EJ25 engine, DOHC

Is there a way to test the oil pump? If so, how?

Also, anyone know how to do an oil flow test? Keep in mind, the engine is on the stand again.

Ready to remove heads again to have retested. Just purchased new OEM HG's, which weren't cheap, can those be re-used. There is a total of about 3 minutes of idle run time use on them.

#2 davebugs

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:51 AM

Gotta get HG's each time.

Think about it - they get squished, unsguished, squished again to make sure the get squished properly and seal. I don't see how they could go through that process a second time successfully.

Never had an oil pump issue. Be careful and try and make sure the Oring ollks like it was in place.

I should have good used ones if you go that route.

#3 grossgary

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 12:24 PM

oil pump is probably fine, but the FSM will have spec's and procedures for testing it.

head gaskets are not to be reused. remember that interesting torque sequence you did? that's because the sealing of the head gasket is a rather complex thing. it's the one seal that's holding internal combustion forces at bay. go with those new ones, you did the right thing.

#4 98sub2500leg

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 01:26 PM

Thanks Dave I may need it. In retrospect, the pump worked fine before tear down, but should still be good and has relatively low miles (108k). Does anyone have an oil flow diagram, or can do me a favor & describe the flow cycle.

#5 98sub2500leg

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 04:03 PM

Removed the right cylinder head, the piston heads & walls were nicely coated with oil. The pistons are in good shape, move freely.
When standing in front of the right cylinder, the lower right oil passage is dry, the lower left passage has some oil, but not saturated like one would expect. With a flashlight I can see into the pan- no blockage from the pan through the passage to the cylinder. Still a mystery, why oil pressure seems to only be building up in one cylinder. I was hoping I wouldn't have to remove the oil pump and pan again. :-\

#6 nipper

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 04:16 PM

you need to check the oil pup specs. You use a feeler gauge to check the specs. if it is in spec it is in good condition.

nipper

#7 hankosolder2

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:02 PM

Couple of thoughts here, and I apologize in advance if they are too obvious.

Did you possibly get a lot of gasket scrapings/crud in the engine and plugged the strainer for the oil pump? Alternately, is it possible that the oil passage to the camshaft on the head which siezed was plugged with something?

FInally (and I'm saying this having never done a HG job on a 2.5, so I don't know the pattern of the HG...I've just swapped in 2.2s) Is it possible that you have your HGs reversed and they're blocking oil feed or drain passages?

I doubt that your oil pump suddenly went from working well enough that the car was drivable to so weak that a cam bearing siezed without something causing it, so I'm inclined to believe the problem is elsewhere. But I could be wrong!

good luck!

Nathan

#8 nipper

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 06:31 PM

Couple of thoughts here, and I apologize in advance if they are too obvious.

Did you possibly get a lot of gasket scrapings/crud in the engine and plugged the strainer for the oil pump? Alternately, is it possible that the oil passage to the camshaft on the head which siezed was plugged with something?

FInally (and I'm saying this having never done a HG job on a 2.5, so I don't know the pattern of the HG...I've just swapped in 2.2s) Is it possible that you have your HGs reversed and they're blocking oil feed or drain passages?

I doubt that your oil pump suddenly went from working well enough that the car was drivable to so weak that a cam bearing siezed without something causing it, so I'm inclined to believe the problem is elsewhere. But I could be wrong!

good luck!

Nathan


Wasnt there also something about using too much sealant someplace causing a cam bearing to become oil starved?

#9 98sub2500leg

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 09:04 PM

Removed the pan again, stout seal all the way around. No squeeze out problems. The strainer is clean, all ports very clean. when I removed gasket the 1st time, I spent a few hours time, doing it slowly and making sure not a piece dropped in the pan. Afterwards, cleaned out the pan with carb cleaner. It was very clean. Spent a lot of extra time inspecting it before sealing. The O ring was installed, No clogs so far in any ports. Haven't run air through them yet.

I removed the oil pump, again great seal, no squeezeout there either. The o ring was installed and in good shape. So far everything seems to check out ok. Still have to check the clearance on the oil pump, although I probably isn't very likely it is bad. I will check it and repost later.

The tiny ports on the oil pump and the cylinder head were all open so far from visual inspection. I will be running air through and possibly some monofiliment if necessary.

What is the procedure (if any) when it comes to priming the oil pump after it has been drained? Is it ok to start out with 5w30? I asked this before, but no replies.
Maybe I should have used thinner viscosity oil to start out with to make the prime easier,then removed the plugs, then bump the starter several times for to prime it. Responses would be really appreciated here.

The saga continues.

#10 davebugs

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 09:25 PM

I've had success with 5w30, MMO, pulling the connector to the coil pack.

Cranking several times lets guess 5 seconds a time. Perhaps 4-6 times. Usually by then the fuel filter is full and you're smelling gas which can't be good for the cylinders. But I figure it's only one time.

I plug it back in and she fires up. Those cranking sessions help build up oil pressure but also dump fuel in the cylinders. Unplugging the injectors just seems like an unnecessary hassle.

If you're a bit paranoid fill the oil filter before installation - that should help a little.

Not from the FSM and I don't know what others do but this "works for me".

#11 98sub2500leg

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 09:39 PM

I've had success with 5w30, MMO, pulling the connector to the coil pack.

Cranking several times lets guess 5 seconds a time. Perhaps 4-6 times. Usually by then the fuel filter is full and you're smelling gas which can't be good for the cylinders. But I figure it's only one time.

I plug it back in and she fires up. Those cranking sessions help build up oil pressure but also dump fuel in the cylinders. Unplugging the injectors just seems like an unnecessary hassle.

If you're a bit paranoid fill the oil filter before installation - that should help a little.

Not from the FSM and I don't know what others do but this "works for me".


Dave- I screwed up there for sure. You did post the MMO. I meant to get it, but probably put everything back together, and then figured it would just fire up. Completely forgot about what I should have done which was get the MMO and disconnect the ignition then prime with the starter.
So far the gasket sealing is all good, clean job, No internal residue, or clogs.
All seals, are new OEM. Read my other updated posts.
What would you do here? Next step. I'm all ears. :-\

#12 davebugs

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 10:13 PM

The MMO really is to make the engine quiter sooner. I doubt it would have effected the oil pump "prime".

I forget where you are at.

My cliffnotes from my poor memory:

2.5 HG job.

Assembled engine, ran for a few minutes and a cam seized.

You're redoing it again looking for an oil circulation issue.


Assuming the oil passages are all clean and not clogged from the oil pickup tube and Oring, to the oil pump and Oring, passages in the heads, etc.

I did see here tonight someone asked basically if you installed the HG's upside down. I have heard of it but never seen it. Did you double check that? I'd assume they would only fit the correct way. But being paranoid I'm always dry fitting thigs making sure the mating surfaces are very clean with the engine on it's side for each head. I double check that the passages line up then.

#13 OB99W

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 11:19 PM

Cranking several times lets guess 5 seconds a time. Perhaps 4-6 times. Usually by then the fuel filter is full and you're smelling gas which can't be good for the cylinders. But I figure it's only one time.

I plug it back in and she fires up. Those cranking sessions help build up oil pressure but also dump fuel in the cylinders. Unplugging the injectors just seems like an unnecessary hassle.

If you're a bit paranoid fill the oil filter before installation - that should help a little.

A disconnected crank position sensor will kill spark and fuel injector pulses -- that can be used to advantage when prepping an engine for first start after major work. Also, an oil pressure gauge could be temporarily installed to verify pressure is building during cranking.

Filling the oil filter is good practice -- I do it even when just changing oil & filter.

#14 davebugs

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 06:33 AM

Something to add to my startup process. Disconnect a different wire (crank position sensor).

Thanks.

#15 subaru360

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 09:13 PM

If you had the head gaskets backwards, you would have a massive oil leak from the unsealed oil passage. You probably have a chunk of silicone in the the oil passage to the head or the passage in the head to the cam. It happens.

#16 98sub2500leg

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 04:13 PM

Update:

When I removed the old head and gasket I used a sharpie to mark the outer side of the HG before removing it for inspection (in other words I did have it on correctly). It can be easily be installed backwards which will entirely block oil flow to the head, which is exactly what seems to have happened.

I picked up a good used head and new HG from another member. Inspected and tested all the ports, everywhere with compressed air. No sign of cloggage anywhere. No traces of contaminants, no squeezeout of RTV, no pieces of RTV, great seals.

Reinstalled the head, HG, oil pump and pan (with hesitation since I have not found the problem). Got the engine back in but accidentally hit the AC condensor-(woops), but that is the least of my problems. I figured I can remove the top cover (breather) on the valve cover to check for oil. I can only see into the top of the cover a bit down (you cannot fully see down into the valves, but hopefully enough to see if oil is flowing through. Not planning on starting this time until I can verify oil in those cylinders. I still have the radiator out, ac compressor, alt, PS pump disconnected. This is because I don't want to reinstalled it all then later change remove to change out the condensor. The 3 main engine connectors at the rear of the engine adjoing tranny are still disconnected and the fuel lines are also disconnected and tied off.

I crank the engine which turns the crank pulley(good news), although has strange sounds (probably some ground loop with everything disconnected).
Battery keeps draining quickly. Will disconnecting the crank sensor and coil pack with everything else connected be a better way to go?

I thought about getting the oil pressure gauge, but in this case I want to see the oil this time in both cylinders. There should be by this time so I removed the 3 lower cylinder HD outer cover screws, oil is flowing (great news). Almost ready to reinstall everything else. Before final startup am I missing anything here. I just don't want to be saying "3rd times a charm". if you know what I mean.




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