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1990 Loyale 4WD not working!!!


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19 replies to this topic

#1 backcountrycrui

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:49 PM

My loyale has the three speed auto and I just noticed that the 4wd is not working. I tried searching for an hour or so and had no luck. So here is my post. My haynes manual has NOTHING in it about yhe 4wd system. What should I look for to fix or test or replace. The last time it worked was last weekend.
Thanks
Mike:confused:

#2 Txakura

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:18 PM

The ONLY time my system failed it was just the switch in the shifter had gone bad... that was a single range 5 spd (manual). I am not the most savvy guy here by a long shot, but that is an easy and cheap place to look first - although I don't remember what the automatic had - isn't it just a button on the shifter also?

#3 backcountrycrui

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:42 PM

Yup just a button. The lights on the dash work when I push it, but no 4wd. I will see if I can check it. Thanks
Mike

#4 TheLoyale

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:02 PM

If the 4WD light on the dash works, then the switch is responding. now since the 4WD system depends on Vaccum, take a look at the Vaccum Modulator down on the passenger side of the tranny, it has a vaccum line that runs from the intake to that vaccum componet. if that go's bad, sometimes it'll suck tranny fluid in to your air intake and cause a ton of white smoke (Untill it drains your tranny pan) but it can also just have a vaccum leak, cause there is a small L-shaped line that runs from the vaccum modulator to the metel tubing that connects farther up to another Peice of Vaccum line that runs to your intake manifold. Just something to check out.

If you need a new one, you can get one from the dealer for like $40 last time I checked.

-Tom :)

#5 Txakura

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:06 PM

Yup just a button. The lights on the dash work when I push it, but no 4wd. I will see if I can check it. Thanks
Mike


if it's lighting the electrical aspect may be okay, there is a cluster of vacuum lines on a gang fitting (for lack of a better term) on the left fender close to the hood hinge - see if the 4 vacuum lines are secure there

the two middle ones come off straight up and then dive towards the fire wall and connect to an actuator on the transmission, the big flat top disc you can just see from above, see that those are attached too

I suppose that vacuum diaphragm could go bad after 19 years too

isn't there a fuse on the right fender close to the right hood hinge too? big sucker all by itself above the vacuum canister near where the washer line goes into the wiper bay

someone else will have to step in, this is about all I got - mine chugged along to the day I pulled it for the d/r so I didn't learn all I could about it

#6 backcountrycrui

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:23 PM

GREAT STUFF GUYS.
I will check all of it in the AM.
Thanks
Mike

#7 TheLoyale

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:46 PM

GREAT STUFF GUYS.
I will check all of it in the AM.
Thanks
Mike


Thats what we're he for :)
-Tom

#8 backcountrycrui

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:04 PM

Txakura
I dont see any large round flat disk on top of my tranny. There is a large diameter plastic vaccum(I think) line comming out of the top of the transmision, it has a little boot like a spark plug covering the connection to the transmision. I couldnt get the boot of to see what kind of connection it is. It might be the speedometer cable I suppose. There is vaccum at the vaccum modulator on the passenger side of the tranny. Is the small white plastic can on the passenger side fender for the 4wd system? What does it do. Can it get plugged?
As far as the button is concerned, if it lights the dash up then does that mean the switch is good and the problem is "down stream" from there? At maybe a relay or something? When I push the button should I hear an audible click any where?
When I did a search I found a contributor that has an article on the push button 4wd. So I pmed him to ask for the article. Maybe that will help when it gets here.
Thanks guys
Mike

#9 Txakura

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:01 PM

I had a manual, the auto is different... so someone like GD or Gloyale needs to step in at this point.

The switch should run under the carpet to a relay, I believe, that the dash board wouldn't light at all if the relay wasn't closing.

the canister and lines aren't likely to get plugged

is the idle okay? a vacuum line leak would make it idle roughly... what happens if you put it in 4wd with the car idling? does the engine change rpm or run crappy?

#10 backcountrycrui

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:10 PM

I had a manual, the auto is different... so someone like GD or Gloyale needs to step in at this point.

The switch should run under the carpet to a relay, I believe, that the dash board wouldn't light at all if the relay wasn't closing.

the canister and lines aren't likely to get plugged

is the idle okay? a vacuum line leak would make it idle roughly... what happens if you put it in 4wd with the car idling? does the engine change rpm or run crappy?


OK
The idle is fine at this point, a little high around 95o rpms, but fine. And there is no diff. when I turn on the 4wd. I pulled one of the lines off of the vaccum can and the idle did turn to poo. It went back to normal when I pluged the line back in.
Mike

#11 WoodsWagon

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 09:49 PM

The 4wd system on the automatics is NOT VACUUM ACTUATED.

The 5spds have a a pair of solenoids that feed vacuum diaphram that moves a cable that actuates a shift fork.

The automatics have a clutch pack a the back that is either on or off. If the dash lights up, it should be easy enough to check for voltage at the solenoid on the transmission that lets hydraulic pressure back to the clutch pack. If the solenoid is smoked, the wiring is broken or disconnected, or a fuse is blown it may not allow hydraulic pressure back to the clutch pack.

The only vaccum line to the tranny runs the vacuum modulator, which works with the mechanical governor in the tranny to determine shift points.

#12 Txakura

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 09:55 PM

almost seems like the vacuum and electrical are okay... sort of leaves mechanical... hmmmm

all the fluid levels are up to full?

#13 backcountrycrui

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 09:56 PM

Cool,
So if I get under the car, is the solenoid easy to see? When I check for voltage, is it all or none for on and off. Or is there an acceptable voltage to make it work and an unacceptable voltage indicating a fried part?
THanks again guys
:banana::banana:
Mike

#14 TheLoyale

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 10:05 PM

The 4wd system on the automatics is NOT VACUUM ACTUATED.

The 5spds have a a pair of solenoids that feed vacuum diaphram that moves a cable that actuates a shift fork.

The automatics have a clutch pack a the back that is either on or off. If the dash lights up, it should be easy enough to check for voltage at the solenoid on the transmission that lets hydraulic pressure back to the clutch pack. If the solenoid is smoked, the wiring is broken or disconnected, or a fuse is blown it may not allow hydraulic pressure back to the clutch pack.

The only vaccum line to the tranny runs the vacuum modulator, which works with the mechanical governor in the tranny to determine shift points.


Oh so its for the shift points, ok. I was wrong. thanks for the correction :)

Learning something new everyday!
-Tom :)

#15 Txakura

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:56 AM

ditto - thank you for stepping in

#16 backcountrycrui

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 01:17 PM

I think I found the soleniod on the drivers side of the tranny and traced it back to a plug on the top of the tranny in the engine compartment. It has two wires, small gauge. And its wraped in a woven white colored sleve. Hopefully these are the correct wires. When I pulled the plug appart to test for voltage I got, zero with ign. off, about 3.7 volts with the ign. on but not running and the 4wd button off. Then when I pushed the 4wd button nothing changed. Still read 3.7 volts. Does the car need to be running to test it?
If I pull the soleniod out how do I test it.
Thanks again
Mike

#17 backcountrycrui

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 02:10 PM

Ok disregard my last post.

So while I was dinking around with some other stuff under the car I noticed a much more solenoind looking thing on the passenger side of the tranny towards the very back. I traced the wires to a plug ect ect. When I unpluged it the light for 4wd went out on the dash. YEAH FOR ME!!:lol:. So without the ign on it is zero, with it on and 4wd off it is like .2 volts. When I push the button I get almost 10 or 12 volts or something. So then Im thinking that the solenoid is trashed. I plug it back in (still with the 4wd button on) and I hear a click:banana:. I push the button multiple time and it clicks each time. So when my wife gets back I will use here car for an anchor and see if the rear tires will turn/spin in our gravel. Ill post again when I find out.
Thanks
Mike

#18 backcountrycrui

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:15 PM

Well, I used my wifes car as an anchor and no rear wheel movement. I still get a click from the solenoid, but that seems to be all. The tranny says it is full of fluid, everything else is working. So where do I get the part to replace it. And is it hard to replace.
Thanks
Mike

#19 mcrae0104

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 01:36 AM

As far as the button is concerned, if it lights the dash up then does that mean the switch is good and the problem is "down stream" from there?


I know this doesn't help for the problem at hand, but for others searching this thread in the future, when the 4WD wouldn't work on my '91 5mt, the problem was that the wires coming down from the switch had frayed rubbing against the flange that the shift boot snaps on to. So, not only would the 4WD not work, but it started eating fuses until I could find the ground (the power windows and the turn signals also seemed to be on this fuse, which means if it goes out, you can't roll down your windows to hand signal :eek:)

There is a hole in the inner boot and a notch at the base of the outer boot that I think the wires are supposed to be routed through before they go under the carpet. This might be another problem spot to check early on along with fuses etc.

#20 mdjdc

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 08:44 AM

If you are hearing a click when you press the 4wd button, the solenoid is working. You more than likely have an internal issue. The clutch pack system has probably sheared off of the shaft it is mounted on. I have seen this in GL10's and the fix is really simple. You have to take the driveshaft off and pull the extension housing and put a replacement shaft with clutch packs in there. They are fairly stout, but if someone drove around alot on pavement with the 4wd engaged, they could have trashed the rear drive. Jack the car up on 4 jack stands and engage and disengage the 4wd while the car is in drive and see if the rear wheels turn. If you hear the solenoid engage and the wheels are not turning then you will have to dig into the rear of the tranny. It is easy enough for someone with a little mechanical ability.




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