Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

EJ-22 swap, Project Loyale


  • Please log in to reply
238 replies to this topic

#76 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 12:51 PM

I switched MAF sensors and tried to start it again. It fires right up runs for 2 secs and then dies, even faster when I give it throttle, same as last time. Don't know what to do there.

Also I checked the codes and I'm getting a "Code 12" which I'm guessing is the starter switch or circuit? How would that effect it from idling when it fires right up?

#77 mellow65

mellow65

    Subaru, my drug of choice

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts
  • Portland

Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:16 PM

did you hook up the wire that tells the computer that it is cranking?

on the ones i did i hooked that up to the small wire coming off of the starter. so basically when you crank your motor it sends 12v to the computer telling it you are trying to start it.

also you might check your power going to your fuel pump relay. you might have something that has power while cranking but not while key on.

also you can unplug you afm and it should still run, run like crap but run, it's another "poor mans" way of checking it.

check if all your vent hoses are hooked up, you need all them hooked up or it will do what you say it's doing now.

thats just a few things for you to check.

there will always be little things to track down, but you are 90% there, just keep on plugging away at it.

#78 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 03:45 PM

did you hook up the wire that tells the computer that it is cranking?

on the ones i did i hooked that up to the small wire coming off of the starter. so basically when you crank your motor it sends 12v to the computer telling it you are trying to start it.


Do you have a pic of this? not quite sure what you mean here, sorry.

also you might check your power going to your fuel pump relay. you might have something that has power while cranking but not while key on.

also you can unplug you afm and it should still run, run like crap but run, it's another "poor mans" way of checking it.

check if all your vent hoses are hooked up, you need all them hooked up or it will do what you say it's doing now.

thats just a few things for you to check.

there will always be little things to track down, but you are 90% there, just keep on plugging away at it.


I can hear the Fuel Pump turn on when the key is on. So I know its working. The power for it is coming off of the old EA ECU harness. I'm pulling it from a wire marked Ignition Switch, pole 38 on the large plug for the EA ECU pinout sheet.

All of my vacuum hoses are hooked up and fluids are perfect. There's just something that I can't seem to find that is keeping the motor from running more than a couple of seconds. :confused: I'm keeping at it all day but if anyone has any other suggestions or is available to call me please let me know. It's frustrating when you're so close...

#79 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,965 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 26 October 2009 - 04:02 PM

Anyone know what this vacuum canister is? Do I need to keep it in with my EJ22?

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1760

It had a line coming off of a EA sensor module on the motor. Where did you EJ swap guys put this into on the EJ motor? Thanks!


that's for the HVAC control. not sure what the point of the canister is, but you need to hook that line up to a vacuum source on your EJ22 in order to select from heat, defrost, etc.


code 12 is indeed for the starter switch. if this is not hooked up, it will not effect how the car runs once started. but it will make it very difficult to start in the cold (I daily drove my car for a year without it. battery died many times trying to crank it. but once it fired, it would run wonderfully).

it is possible that it's getting 12v all the time, effectively leaving the choke on....this could make the engine stumble. I marked the starter signal wire (red with yellow stripe). make sure that's getting 12v only while cranking. There are a few wires going to the starter, a large one going from the solenoid to the + battery terminal, a large one going from the bracket to ground, and a smaller one going to a tab on the back of the solenoid (this is what mellow65 is referring to). Anywhere between that tab and the ignition switch will give you the signal you need.



it does sound like a major post-maf air leak. all PCV and IAC lines connected?


try un-plugging the MAF and IAC valves. this should throw it into a default mode that would allow it to run well. but I'd check into that starter signal first.

#80 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 04:19 PM

that's for the HVAC control. not sure what the point of the canister is, but you need to hook that line up to a vacuum source on your EJ22 in order to select from heat, defrost, etc.


Ok, thanks. I'll just put a T in one of the lines coming off of the black vaccum canister behind the passenger side head light.


it is possible that it's getting 12v all the time, effectively leaving the choke on....this could make the engine stumble. I marked the starter signal wire (red with yellow stripe). make sure that's getting 12v only while cranking. There are a few wires going to the starter, a large one going from the solenoid to the + battery terminal, a large one going from the bracket to ground, and a smaller one going to a tab on the back of the solenoid (this is what mellow65 is referring to). Anywhere between that tab and the ignition switch will give you the signal you need.


I'll look into this and run the starter signal wire off of this. Its sounding like this is the issue.

it does sound like a major post-maf air leak. all PCV and IAC lines connected?

try un-plugging the MAF and IAC valves. this should throw it into a default mode that would allow it to run well. but I'd check into that starter signal first.


I have all the PCV and IAC lines hooked up properly. Could the Idle Air Control be bad or out of adjustment? The factory paint on the screws is intact so nobody has messed with it, should I try adjusting it? I'm assuming the SPFI Loyale fuel pump is sufficient? Do I need to get a MPFI Turbo fuel pump? Thanks for your help.

Edited by cmiller, 26 October 2009 - 04:33 PM.


#81 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 05:15 PM

it is possible that it's getting 12v all the time, effectively leaving the choke on....this could make the engine stumble. I marked the starter signal wire (red with yellow stripe). make sure that's getting 12v only while cranking. There are a few wires going to the starter, a large one going from the solenoid to the + battery terminal, a large one going from the bracket to ground, and a smaller one going to a tab on the back of the solenoid (this is what mellow65 is referring to). Anywhere between that tab and the ignition switch will give you the signal you need.


Ok, so I've re-wired the starter signal wire to the black wire with the red stripe coming off of the starter solenoid. I tried to start it up again and nothing has changed. Still dies after a couple of seconds. Also I checked the codes again and now the CEL just flashed constantly...:banghead: Just FYI there is no exhaust on this except for the headers, no cat/O2 sensor, nothing. But that shouldn't make a difference here...

I'm running out of ideas other than the IAC is toasted or out of adjustment even thought the factory paint on the screws hasn't moved. If the timing were off would it react like this? Any other thoughts?

Edited by cmiller, 26 October 2009 - 05:24 PM.


#82 mellow65

mellow65

    Subaru, my drug of choice

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts
  • Portland

Posted 26 October 2009 - 05:57 PM

really ej22 and their ecus are super awesome on running with so many things not working. start unplugging stuff and see if it helps. you can run with your afm and iac unplugged and it should still run. there really isn't many things that go wrong and the car wont run. it's got to be something stupid that's being over looked.

you might also try plugging in your o2 sensor even if it's just hanging there.

#83 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 06:39 PM

really ej22 and their ecus are super awesome on running with so many things not working. start unplugging stuff and see if it helps. you can run with your afm and iac unplugged and it should still run. there really isn't many things that go wrong and the car wont run. it's got to be something stupid that's being over looked.

you might also try plugging in your o2 sensor even if it's just hanging there.


I started it with the MAF and IAC each unplugged and it didn't change a thing. Just fires up then dies in 2 secs. :-\

#84 Pooparu

Pooparu

    way too obsessed

  • Members
  • 1,335 posts
  • Portland, Oregon

Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:30 PM

Check this link for a turbo fuel pump: http://www.ultimates...ad.php?t=104828

#85 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:31 PM

I'll try the "Hot wire" the fuel pump idea tomorrow and see if it will idle. Hopefully thats the issue and its just some dumb thing with my wiring of the fuel pump that is causing all of this.

#86 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,965 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:00 AM

SPFI pump is plenty, assuming it's working :grin:. so check that.

if you un-plugged your IAC and MAF, and got no change, those are not your issue.

constant flashing CEL (while read connectors connected) means you have no codes.

I wire the fuel relay power through the harness so the relay gets power straight from the battery, and is switched from the ECU. if the rest of the EJ harness is powered, the fuel pump *should* be as well.


my next step (after fuel pump) would be to check the TPS. grab a multimeter and start testing the voltage coming off of it at different throttle levels.

after that, I'd put the exhaust and 02 on there. it's gotta happen, and it can't hurt.....

#87 PoorManzImpreza

PoorManzImpreza

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 546 posts
  • BARBADOS

Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:41 AM

Anyone know what this vacuum canister is? Do I need to keep it in with my EJ22?

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1760

It had a line coming off of a EA sensor module on the motor. Where did you EJ swap guys put this into on the EJ motor? Thanks!


Thats a one way valve and vacuum reservoir for the HIVAC vent controls as they are vacuum operated. It just needs a vacuum source from the engine. Under its bracket are the ac and main radiator cooling fan relays

I'm glad you got your swap running it looks good and you have a nice clean car to work with ej power belongs in an ea chassis ;-)

HTH
Kaz

#88 The Scooby

The Scooby

    EJ Swap Junkie

  • Members
  • 1,752 posts
  • South Seattle

Posted 27 October 2009 - 02:58 PM

it sounds like you are having the EXACT problem i was having and had to pay suberdave to come and fix my cut down harness.

problem was that the fuel pump was not seeing a signal that the engine was running, so it would prime, engine would start then stall a few seconds later. you need to make sure that the pump STAYS running while the engine is running.

#89 phantomcrooner

phantomcrooner

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • The mountains of Julian

Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:48 PM

My brother had this exact problem, it turned out to be a faulty fuel pump relay, the pump would come on intermitemtly, not continually, and the car would start, run for a few seconds then die. He then got a fuel pump relay from a ej22 which kept fuel pump running all the time and the car started and has run ever since.
Hope that helps.

#90 rainman19154

rainman19154

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 206 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 28 October 2009 - 01:19 PM

Great read here. Also good to see everyone pitching in! I'll be watching this, waiting for word that you've got all together.

As for all you guys in PDX.... I was in St Helens/Scappoose from 2000 to May of '09. Too bad for me I didn't get back on the Subbie train sooner.

#91 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:10 AM

Lewis from Mountain Tech Subaru came over after work last night and sorted out the fuel pump issue. Yes, I had it hooked up wrong and the fuel pump was switching off after cranking. Anyway we got it going and this morning I drove it down to Exhaust Specialties in Tualatin to get the exhaust made up. I'll post up some detailed finished pics later on today.

#92 phantomcrooner

phantomcrooner

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 138 posts
  • The mountains of Julian

Posted 29 October 2009 - 02:19 PM

Right on man, i am so stoked that you got it going. You have really gotten me motivated, cant wait ti see picks. I kind of wish I was still in Bend, OR, it would make finding parts easier. I have only found two 80's Subarus in about 20 visits to different wrecking yards, and those were picked clean.

Anyway, good job bro!!

#93 Pooparu

Pooparu

    way too obsessed

  • Members
  • 1,335 posts
  • Portland, Oregon

Posted 29 October 2009 - 02:48 PM

Cool. So the SPFI pump does work with the swap. I must have got a bunk one at the auto wreckers. At least you got it sorted.

#94 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:16 PM

Ok here are some updated pics of the finished EJ22 swap:

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1814
EJ22 motor is in and working great!

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1818
I'm using the EJ top half of the air box and the EA lower half so I can retain the factory mounting position. There are some tabs welded on the EA lower box to allow the EJ top to be bolted up nice and clean.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1817
I used the EJ power steering lines from the pump down to the EA hard lines on the engine cross member because it routes best (obviously) on the EJ motor. I used a tube bender to make the fit. Bolted right up and is in the factory position.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1819
I had to get the EJ sized inlets brazed on to my EA radiator to make a proper fit. Then for hoses I used the EJ top and bottom radiator hoses and added another hose for the extra bend both top and bottom. I connected these with a section of exhaust tubing acting as a coupler.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1820
The EA throttle cable bolts right up to the EJ no probs.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1821
The SJR EJ adapter plate has two tabs on top for a pitch stopper. Scoobyclimbs fabbed up a bracket to bolt to this and then shortened the EA pitch stopper to fit. Turned out nice and clean. With the EJ22 you definitely want to have some kind of pitch stopper other wise you are putting unnecessary stress on your mounts and drive line from the motor moving around under acceleration or letting off.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1823
The main part of the EJ harness that hooks up to the motor I ran in the factory EA position through the drivers front fender.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1816
and the other half of the EJ harness that has the igniter and MAF cables I ran through the hole behind the drivers side strut tower. It sealed up nicely and looks clean. Of course take the time to wrap everything with split loom and tape so you don't have problems later on.

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1815
For exhaust you need to use 2 1/4" all the way through to keep decent flow but not loose too much grunt. I have a high flow cat and a Magnaflow muffler nicely tucked up and out of the way. It sounds great with a nice low Subaru rumble but is not obnoxiously loud like a Honda wet fart can. (yes that is a torn axle boot piece hanging on the axle.):rolleyes:

http://www.ultimates...&pictureid=1822
I put two pusher radiator fans up front, one wired up to the ECU and the other on this switch here. Good to have it on for hot days or slow driving in city or on trails.

Overall this swap was not bad. And now after doing this I can see it being done in a weekend if you have everything set aside and ready. The hardest part for me was the wiring mainly because its not my specialty. However, Numbchux labeled everything great on the EJ harness and there are plenty of resources here to get it done right. Asking questions and getting an extra hand helped alot. It was a great learning experience for me because of the wiring. I am no mechanic by trade, just a do-it-yourself guy with the proper tools.

I would highly recommend this swap to anyone that can do it. The EJ motor runs so smooth and is way easier to work on. Everything seems so much better designed over the crappy, gutless EA82 motors, (that's why Subaru fired everyone that designed the EA motors and started with a fresh team on the EJ). My Loyale has tons more torque and power. I can cruse smoothly on the freeway up hills in 5th gear with a fully loaded car and still accelerate if needed. Never experienced this before with the EA82, as I would have been in 3rd or 4th gear at 5000 rpms just screaming along at a slow pace.

So quit putting it off and do the swap. It so worth it and makes for a happy driving experience! The EJ22 breathed new life into what was once a tired, gutless, poorly designed turd!:banana::banana::banana::banana:
Also feel free to ask me any questions about the swap. I figure that I can pass on what was shown to me.


-Chris

Thanks to Scoobyclimbs for some sweet fabrication and good help, Numbchux, Mellow65, and Pooparu for your help with my questions. And thanks to Lewis at Mountain Tech Subaru for fixing my fuel pump wiring that I screwed up and for a sweet EJ22 motor! I hope I'm not forgetting anyone!

Edited by cmiller, 03 November 2009 - 01:32 PM.


#95 mellow65

mellow65

    Subaru, my drug of choice

  • Members
  • 1,081 posts
  • Portland

Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:23 PM

good times :banana:

glad to hear you got it all wrapped up.

now just go out and enjoy.

#96 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,282 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:31 PM

Great job. Very clean and looks factory. Lets see some pics of it in action!!

#97 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 5,385 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:54 PM

Congratulations! ... I Really Like your Subie, it Looks Soo Clean!

Could you Upload some Videos of it? ... I'll Love to See that EJ22 Loyale in Action!

Kind Regards.

#98 Subarutex

Subarutex

    Oldschool Show Queen

  • Moderator
  • 2,526 posts
  • Mountlake Terrace

Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:29 AM

Glad you got everything sorted out.

Finished product looks great!

#99 cmiller

cmiller

    Flat 4

  • Members
  • 735 posts
  • Tigard, OR

Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:57 AM

The last thing I need to do is to figure out the temp gauge. Has anyone wired in the 275 Ohm resistor to make the temp gauge read accurately? I tested an EJ thermistor and it read about 2000 Ohms versus the EA read at 800 Ohms. Any thoughts on this? I know Numbchux put in the write up that it could work on paper.

#100 jrettenmayer

jrettenmayer

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Bozeman

Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:54 PM

Are you worried about the chunk of exhaust pipe you used to couple your radiator hoses together rusting at all?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users