brat69
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Posts posted by brat69
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I was at the junk yard yesterday getting some parts for a civic and ran across two 1983 loyale gl's one a hatch and one a wagon, mostly intact. I wanted to grab the steering wheel/column for my brat but wasn't sure of compatibility of the parts.
So what years and models are interchange able with my particular 1981 brat 1.8 with ea81? I'm looking for tailgate handle, tail light cover, steering wheel+column, fuse box, radio.
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you should be able to start any old carby engine without a fuel pump - so long as fuel in the carby bowl is at the correct level. It should be able to start, run and accelerate for a small time before fuel runs through and depletes. IF it was efi, can still start without the pump operating, so long as the line pressure remains from last operating moment, and then as pressure drops off engine will falter and cut out.
When you say in first post that engine would not stop when switched off - you don't say how many revs it was idling at - incorrect speed , like info, can produce bum steers
We were too excited to take note of idle speeds when it engine would continue to run. We'll take note of it next time. Might take a look at the carb to see if it needs a cleaning/rebuilding. The air cleaner was filled with a bunch of gunk and some loose debris.
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Stock, the fuel pump on your car should be powered by the voltage regulator to prevent it from running if the engine is not turning. Without looking at a diagram I cannot tell you if that is bypassed during cranking (for priming). Again could be similar to what you have already been through. Wiring, the regulator or alternator. the voltage regulator could have easily been fried due to the current condition the harness is in. It may simply not be hooked up correctly. Maybe the pump could be intermittent or poorly grounded. Once this is is solved will the gremlins continue
Stock, the fuel pump on your car should be powered by the voltage regulator to prevent it from running if the engine is not turning. Without looking at a diagram I cannot tell you if that is bypassed during cranking (for priming). Again could be similar to what you have already been through. Wiring, the regulator or alternator. the voltage regulator could have easily been fried due to the current condition the harness is in. It may simply not be hooked up correctly. Maybe the pump could be intermittent or poorly grounded. Once this is is solved will the gremlins continue?
I will take a look. Its getting power. Not sure if the filter or the lines are clogged. But once this is fixed there are a few gremlins to be smashed. Turn signal switch, hazard switch, we don't even know where they go, the horn/steering wheel, marker lights, tail gate handle, steering knuckle(currently a 3wd or 1wd brat), few tiny bits of rust, resealing the windshield. im hoping to be able to drive it and not be towed around it, for once.
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It lives!
The problem with the coil not getting power was a dirty/loose connection at the fuse and/or a cut in the line grounding out. Cleaned and patched it up and cleared things up just a bit.
Replaced the ignition control module because it didn't have any resistance to the disty body and took out the 3 ball bearings.
Now we can start it and shut it off at will, for the most part! The engine runs for a good 30 seconds before dying. The idle sounds alright and seems to be running fine but then it just shuts off like it runs out of gas. When I turn the key over to the start position we do not hear the fuel pump priming. But how are we able to get the car started? If its running off of vacuum then wouldn't it just continue to keep sucking?
Suggestions?
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I think we have to take the dash apart to figure out why we are not getting power to the coil. Took a look at the ignition module to see where the bb's go and found a few odd things.
When we took off the reluctor, we found a total of 3 bb's and the spacers that go beneath the pick up coil and control unit were just laying around. And the reluctor had a few small chips out of it. Whats weird is that the spacers are found on the turbo charged breakerless systems but our disty is the "late hitachi system." In the Haynes manual, it shows a single piece spacer. I don't know if its brass too or if it really makes a difference. But while the disty was slightly taken apart we did a resistance test. And it failed.
Could a bad pick up coil and unit be our problem? This wouldn't be part of the reason why the coil isn't getting power right?
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I put this in your other thread, Post 21 I believe), but Ill put it here and add a bit more.
A = Accessory; Blue wire
B = Battery +; White wire
I = Ignition; Black wire
S = Starter; Black/White wire (wire stripe may look Yellow from aging)
R = Resistor; Only used on Point/Condenser type distributors to feed full Battery voltage to distributor to aide starting. Engine then runs on 1/2 Battery voltage when key is released to "Run" position.
When Ignition switch is in the;
"Run" position, both the "I" and "A" contacts are fed power. This powers all of the vehicles electrical systems, minus the "Start Circuit".
"Accessory" position, only powers a few circuits. IE; heater fan, cigarette lighter, and a few others. Usually, dash gauges, alternator charge circuit, coil circuit are not powered.
"Start" position, feeds power to the starter solenoid and the "I" for the coil. Also feeds the "R" position, and is the, "ONLY TIME",, "R" is fed power.
I would seriously start looking for a replacement wiring harness for that BRAT. It has been hacked way to much. You will be chasing wiring issues for a long time.
Thank you. We will hook it up after work and see what happens.
My brother took off the disty cap and rotor. He noticed that there were two ball bearings. Where are these things from or did we drop them in by accident?
Anyone have a wiring harness for sale!?
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I fear were confusing the O.P.
This is true.
I believe it is the internal ignition module. I took off the disty rotor and tested it for shaft play; there was none.
We dont remember but, I think we moved the Black wire to the "ig" spot on the switch. The car would turn on then turn off. Then we left and it stopped working, then we ended up moving to something else then along the way, I found a blown fuse (the fourth one from the bottom 25amps).
There are 4 wires coming from the ignition harness black, blue, white, and black/yellow. We know that the white goes to the battery and that the black/yellow goes to the starter. The other two, we have no idea, so if you have an idea, please let us know!
edit: ran the test again, and now we are not getting any power to the coil. or we have a "power problem"
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Start with a voltage check at the coil there should be about 7 volts with ignition in the run position and 12 volts when in the start position.
The Ballast resistor is usually a long rectangular ceramic item mounted on or near the coil that has a wire coil winding tucked inside it much like a electric radiator element winding and operates the same way shedding voltage via heating up the wire element.
The Idea is that you run a Coil designed to nominally operate on 7 volts and the start position of the ignition switch bypasses the normal coil power for run mode that goes through the ballast resistor and gives 7 volts to supply 12 volts in cranking start mode for a stronger spark when cranking.
Seems your 7 volt circuit is either not supplying power or hooked up wrong, Get a multi meter and check voltage supply at all the wires near the coil and ballast both cranking power and run power should supply 12 volts at the wiring and when hooked up you should see 7 volts out of the ballast resistor that goes to coil positive terminal as well as a straight 12 volt supply from the wire powered up only when cranking that also goes to coil positive terminal.
Negative connections are to distributor and tachometer only obviously they seem to be OK as it does start
If you measure the power as explained above and both 12 volt supplies are found in the wiring at both crank and run modes then the ignition switch is OK if only one 12 volt can be found look at the ignition switch wiring
I don't ever recall seeing a resistor, though in the Haynes manual it shows one in the diagrams. We picked one up and are trying to figure out how to wire it in.
We tested the wires going into the coil(2 from disty, 2 from ig?) and the test light does not go on with the tool grounded. But if I hook up the test light to the battery + one of the wires will light up from the ig. There is a blue wire in the round harness that goes to the metal chunk that is constantly hot.
I don`t think 81 BRATS have a ballast resistor.
Even if they did,coil voltage would be 12 volts regardless of key position(except off) with the engine stopped.
(there is no current flowing thru the coil w/engine stopped and therefore NO voltage drop across the resistor)
I think the engine would not stop because a faulty voltage regulator is backfeeding voltage to the coil w/the key off.
Test the switch by seeing if it passes/doesn`t pass voltage/current as required.
Spark colour is irrelevant.
Orange just means there is some sodium present.
Test spark strength by seeing how long of a gap it will jump.
Okay, how do do we go about testing the switch?
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Its been so long since ive touched the older ignitions. Pretty sure during cranking full battery voltage is put too the coil and in run/on the voltage is run through a ballast resistor befor the coil. So:
Your ballast resistor is bad
You have a wiring problem
Your ign switch is bad.
The spark from your coil should be loud and blue.
So do you believe its a combination of all these problems or just one or the other?
Do you know where the ballast resistor is located?
How can you test the ignition switch?
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So My brother and I have been trying to get my Brat running
It's a 1981 4wd EA81 with the dual range. We can start the car but when you let go of the ignition switch the motor just dies. Before we swapped some of the ignition wires around the car would start and run but you could not turn the motor off. The brat would run until it ran out of gas. We have a orange spark coming from the coil.
"At the risk of repeating myself....
Put a test light on coil -.
It should light up and pulse w/cranking.
Light but no pulse = bad module
No light on coil - or + = power problem
No light on coil -,but,lights on coil + = bad coil
It is almost impossible to prevent an EA81 dizzy from turning."
fasdfasdfasdf
We ran these tests and were not able to get any readings, from any of the leads. I used a tested ground above the coil and ran the test with the ignition switch in the off, on, and acc positions.
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tested resistance on the coil and got 1.9 on primary and none on the secondary. i think we fried the coil by grounding it somehow.
we are still not getting power to the coil.
does anybody have pictures of the fuse box? or can tell me what each fuse is for?
we dont know why he would cut the lines and replace a few glass fuses for the modern type.
anyone know for sure what this is? someone said the icu. there is a wire that goes from this thing to the fan. the other wire is grounded to the frame then connects to itself.
maybe wire 1 connects to the mystery box? is 2 half of a fusible link?
how many wire should there be going to the ignition switch? we have 4 coming from the harness b, bw, w, blue
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tried again last night, no start, no spark.
we did an coil test from a ground to coil + and got no light. then test light from battery - (with the battery - not connected) and got a weak light from coil +.
we have no hot wire to the coil.
can we make a line to go from the ignition switch straight to the coil +, or will we fry something in the process?
to my understanding, the coil is grounded by the strap but i don't think it is a good ground. if we make a ground, would it connect to the coil - ?
from battery + to coil +- the test light goes on. this makes me think that both sides of the coil are grounded.
haha, we have no idea what to do now. probably gonna redo the taped fuses with actual holders.
can we just make a new harness for the ignition switch itself? if we did it would have to go to the coil, resistor, icu, and voltage regulator, right?
the box with the round connector comming from it is the voltage regulator? if so what is the smaller box next to it? in the round connecter there is one hot wire that i tested. is this box not sending a signal to the coil?
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Brat starts and runs, sorta!
Still need help making sure where the wires go on the ignition switch. Currently we have it plugged in as
IG(nition)->Black
A(ccessories)->Blue
R(egulator/rectifier)->White(this goes to battery)
S(tarter)->Black/Yellow(this goes to starter)
With this set up we can get the car to run but not idle. It will run as long as we keep the key turned. What we are unsure of, is there supposed to be a line that comes from the regulator/rectifier? There is another spade on the switch "B".
How is the ICU supposed to be hooked up in the engine bay? There are two spades on it but we only have one wire plugged to it.
We have a weak orange spark from the coil to the disty but when i try it from the plugs to the frame i get purple.
On 1 and 4 we are getting intermittent spark to no spark at all.
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No, I didn't! I still think they are swapped around. Because when we turn the key over to acc or the on position, the motor likes to turn over a bit.Hi Brat69. I've got a 1983 Brat. A few months ago my car wouldn't start(just clicking from the relay) so I inspected the connection and noticed there's a black/yellow wire that runs from my ignition switch to a connector and then continues on under the stearing wheel column. This wire had gotten loose so I reconnected it and it started. Just last week the same the same thing happened so I cleaned up the connection but it still won't start. Did you ever get a response from your question about the codes on the back of the ignition switch or were you able to figure that out? Thanks.
Anyone know what wires go to which spades on the ignition? We know that the black/yellow goes to the starter or "s" position. On the back of the tumbler there are "ig","acc","b","s", and "r" but there are only 4 visible wires.
We made some progress, sort of. We got the car running by placing the Green splice onto the + side of the coil but the motor would not stop until it ran out of gas. We tested the spark, while the green wire was connected, and were able to get a weak orange spark.
Took off the green wire off the coil, no spark, no start. While we were using a test light we touched the + side of the coil while I was cranking it and it started.
Took off what I think is the noise suppressor, cleaned and tested the resistance of it and got no reading.
Found this thread and still don't know if I need it or not.
http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136409-what-is-this-little-capacitor-looking-thing/
Any help on what to test or what goes where will be greatly appreciated!
Also this is the California model!
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This sort of happened to my motorcycle. I had to clean the points, re gapped it and got new plugs and it fires right up.
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Looked at the old fuel pump and it has me confused. The eom pump has two wires; one blk and the other blk/white. On the new airtex replacement there is a black and a tan one.
My question is what goes where?
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can i get the car to run without the air box/vacuums hooked up? or do i have to have all things hooked up to get it to run?
this is the fuel pump i ordered that should get here on monday
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so the square thing to the left is what i believe to be the fuel pump and the round thing on the right is the fuel filter. the replacement pump looks nothing like this.
lvsarge, do you have a picture i can look at to reference
Is this the canister your are talking about, the round thing next to the strut tower?
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I ordered a Airtex fuel pump but it doesn't look a thing like the one under the car(near the gas tank). The stock one is a square one, I've never seen one like this or an inline fuel pump. I guess I'll find out if this works.
I'm trying to get this little bad boy running before I leave back home. Got a new coil and wired up some loose ends and got it to crank over but not start. I've changed the plugs but still need a helping hand to see if I'm getting spark.
I guess my question is will this pump work? What else should I check? I'll get some pictures of the stock pump and try to do some install pictures.
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81 ea81 for 600
so far needs a new coil and fuel pump. rust in the wheel wells. tail light needs replaced. interior is gone and a ton of wiring demons. exhaust system is is a crumpled beer can and who knows wha else.
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I got it to crank over! I don't know if I'm not getting fuel or spark so hopefully it'll be running soon!
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BW wire at the coil will be hot and yellow is Tach.....theres; a start.
BW wire from the distributor is supposed to be hot, as in connecting to the positive(+) on the coil? Do I have the wires for the distributor switched around?
what do you mean by the yellow is the tach(not the yellow wire from the distributor but the one grounded on the engine)?
PO finally got back to me after two weeks. Told me that the green wire connects to the hot side of the coil and thinks that the blue wire(thats grounded to the frame/connected to the round connecter) goes to the fan.
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Okay so I've made some progress. The blue line from the fire wall goes to the voltage regulator and the noise suppressor contexts to the positive of the coil.
When I plug the battery in and try to start it I hear a click sound. I don't know if that is the starter relay or what but after it does that the car has no power and it have to unconnected and re connect the battery to get it to work.
I'm going to charge the battery to see if that helps, my only other thought is that the ignition circuit is shorting out some where. That or the ignition switch is wired up wrong.
Help please!
Edit: does any one know how the ignition switch is supposed to be wired? I'm guessing the black/yellow wire go to the "s" on the back of the key switch (this line goes to the starter) and the other three I'm not sure. The rest of the letters on the back of the switch are b, a, ig, and r. I believe b is for battery and am assuming it is the black line.
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Naru, this is the diagram I was looking at.
81 Brat Compatibility
in Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales...
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thank you leeroy!