Theophilus

So do you want to know how it all ended? I tried everything I could think of — cleaned the throttle body, checked the fuel pressure, etc. — but it still wouldn't run. It would start, but it always needed a little gas or it would die at idle, and it shuddered under any load at all in first gear. (I only drove it around the block a few times.) So finally I gave up and had AAA tow it to a service shop. They went through all the same things we talked about (fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, IAC solenoid, and so forth). They couldn't find anything wrong and everything seemed to be in really good condition. Finally they checked on that new radiator I'd installed, and they found that it was bone dry. So they tried to fill it with coolant... and got a river of antifreeze pouring out the tailpipe. You should have seen it. The whole shop came to a stop and a dozen mechanics all gathered around to ogle it. They said they'd never seen anything like it, where there was a straight-flow, no-resistance route from the radiator fill cap to the end of the exhaust system. So why hadn't I noticed something that obvious myself? It's because, when I put in the new radiator, I only filled it with water for the first fill, in case there was a leak from one of the hoses or something. When I turned it on and tried it for the first time, I told you that I got a big cloud of white smoke coming out the back. But it wasn't smoke. It was steam from all the contents of the radiator hitting the exhaust and boiling away. My "smoke" problem only went away because I boiled off everything in the radiator. Anyway, new gaskets might solve the coolant leak, but who knows what other problems might be lurking in there? I was done with it, so I sold the car to one of the mechanics on the spot for $500. Now I'm looking for an electric car or a hybrid.

Several people I've talked to have been thinking along the same lines. Here's the thinking: It's too much of a coincidence to have the starting problem and the radiator explosion at the same time. They must be connected. It seems most likely that the radiator crack was what caused the starting problem, but the car didn't overheat until AFTER it lost power and went to the side of the road. So, if it wasn't the heat that messed things up, it must have been the coolant. The crack was at the top middle of the radiator, between the cap and the air intake. But there was no coolant at all in the air intake. The car was going 60 mph and about a gallon of hot coolant was blown straight back over the throttle body. What could a gallon of hot water and antifreeze do to a throttle body? This was very old antifreeze, so it would have been electrically conductive. Maybe it caused a short? But wouldn't that have blown a fuse or generated a CEL? Maybe I should remove the whole throttle body and clean it? My IACV doesn't have a hose attached to it. Just an electrical connector (which seemed clean and dry). I pulled the valve and it was totally black and gummy, but I don't know how to test whether it still works.

And the verdict appears to be... KILL IT. I was able to replace the radiator, but all those other changes didn't solve the starting problem. I can only get it started with a lot of effort (and starting fluid) and it only keeps running if I'm giving it gas. It dies if it gets below 2,000 RPM. I did replace the fuel filter and that seemed to help, but it wasn't enough. And I don't have any way to scan for pending codes. But thanks for all the suggestions! I'll check tomorrow morning in case anyone has any new ideas overnight, but otherwise the Subaru goes to a junkyard tomorrow.

Progress! Here's what I've done: replaced and refilled the radiator, replaced all the spark plugs, replaced both fan belts (which were actually the original equipment from 2003), refilled the oil, checked the timing belt (which seemed fine), checked the air filter (which was dry and unclogged), checked the fuel pump (which was working fine), and checked all the fuses (none were blown). Then I gave it a 3-second burst of starter fluid at the air intake and I also attached a portable jump-start device, just in case the battery wasn't giving it enough power. And... it started! But it put out a huge cloud of white smoke, it was loud, there was a smell of gas in the exhaust, and it would only keep running if I kept giving it a lot of gas and revving it pretty high. It didn't give any CEL during the few minutes I had it running, but it died as soon as I took my foot off the accelerator. So where are we now? Is this a problem with the fuel/air mixture? Two other pieces of the puzzle that I haven't mentioned before: I replaced both O2 sensors before I started out from Florida. Could one of them have suddenly gone bad? A more detailed report from the driver (my wife): The car was driving fine until (on that long hill outside Scranton) the AC stopped working and then, a few minutes later, the engine lost power and died. But she didn't notice the clouds of steam from the leaking radiator until she was stopped at the side of the road. So it's possible that the cracked radiator would have killed it later on and that this is just something unrelated that happened to kill it first. Not sure what to try now, so suggestions would be welcome!

Haven't checked the timing marks (because I don't know what that means) but I'll look into it. I'll also definitely check the things you mentioned about the fuel line. The thing is, whatever is causing the starting issue happened right when the radiator exploded and sent a gallon of coolant over the engine. So I'm skeptical that the fuel pump is involved (because it's not located in the engine compartment), and I'm skeptical about the timing belt (because it seemed clean and dry when I looked at it). It seems like this has to be something that happens when a lot of liquid with a high boiling point gets sprayed over an engine. Could a cup of coolant in the alternator be causing a short? It's been cool and rainy here in Ithaca, so I wouldn't be surprised if I still have some antifreeze in there that hasn't evaporated. Maybe I should just put the car in a dry place with a box fan and blow a lot of air through the engine compartment? I've also thought that maybe I should try a jump start, in case the battery got depleted by a short.

Updates: I got AAA to tow the car to Ithaca. (They weren't very happy about it, but they did it.) I took the cover off to check the timing belt. It looked absolutely pristine. No signs of oil or dirt or wear at all. I bought and installed the cheap radiator that Idosubaru found on eBay. There was less than 2 quarts of coolant left in the system when I drained it. I also installed new spark plugs, because one person suggested that the sudden high heat in the engine might have destroyed a plug. Outcome: The car turns over and tries to start but doesn't start. There's about half a tank of gas, the oil is midway between the full and low marks, and the new radiator is now full of water. Any suggestions? My first thought is to check the air filter, because maybe the exploding radiator soaked the paper filter and air isn't reaching the cylinder. My other thought is to check the fuel pump, to be sure gas is getting to the cylinder. If both of those are fine, then maybe the coolant explosion did something to the ignition coil or the alternator? Any suggestions welcome and appreciated!

Thanks for all the good, solid input on this question! It's very helpful. 1997reduxe is correct about it being a Florida car. It's never had any rust issues at all. And, yes, I feel the same way about knowing the status of a car I've maintained. The car is 150 miles away, in Scranton, but I might still be able to get AAA to cover the first 100 miles of the towing. If I can just get the car into my own driveway, I've got some things to investigate now. And I found a used radiator at an online parts place for $125. Scranton hills really are hell. In retrospect, I wish we'd just turned on the emergency blinkers and done 40 mph in the right lane, like all those big rigs were doing.

Trying to decide what to do here, so I'd appreciate any input people have. I was moving from Florida to New York last week in my 2003 Subaru Legacy Outback. The car was doing fine and almost made it, but one final long hill outside of Scranton PA was just too much. The car suddenly lost all power and started putting out billows of steam/smoke from the engine compartment. We pulled over to the side of the highway right away. The temperature gauge only went into the red zone AFTER we pulled over and stopped. When I opened the hood, I saw that a crack had developed along the top edge of the radiator. Large amounts of coolant had shot out all over the hot engine (producing the smoke). When I try to start the engine now, the starter spins but nothing catches. Hopefully it's just that the sudden high heat destroyed the spark plugs and they need to be replaced. But it might be something more serious. So what should I do? I'm in Ithaca now and the car is parked at a repair place in Scranton. Is it worth investing $500 or more to tow the car 150 miles, replace the radiator, replace the spark plugs, and hope that it runs again? Or should I cut my losses and sell it to a junkyard in Scranton for $250? My heart says "keep it" but my head says "kill it." What do you think?

I've got a 2002 Subaru Legacy Outback with a 5-speed manual transmission and I've been driving it for almost ten years. Just lately I've started having problems hitting the correct gears when I shift. I try to put it in 1st and I hit 3rd. I try to get into 2nd and I hit 4th. Sometimes I try to go into 3rd and I hit 5th. And there have even been several times when I've been shifting into 4th and I've hit reverse (which is really disturbing). It seems that all the proper gear positions are drifting to the left, so I'm now hitting one gear to the right of where I should be. The problem only started about a month ago, and it's definitely getting worse every day. Any idea what could be causing this? Is there some bolt that holds the transmission in place and could be coming loose? Or maybe the rods connected to the gear shift are starting to bend? Everything else is working and the car is driving fine, but changing gears is just going to be impossible if this keeps getting worse.

Time for another update on this thread. Thanks to everyone for all the input! I did what FairTax suggested and took apart the solenoid. It was perfectly clean and looked brand-new inside. No contamination at all and everything seemed to moving easily. But the problem continued, so I decided to just live with it and drive as gently as possible after each fill-up. But now the check engine light has come on and the codes are for the upstream and downstream O2 sensors. Could this be connected to the shuddering problems (which are still happening every time I fill up with gas)? Is it normal for both sensors to suddenly have problems at the same time? I saw some YouTube video awhile back that suggested taking off the charcoal cannister and weighing it to see if it was flooded. Is that worth doing? I'm not sure what I should be checking at this point.

Wow, I didn't realize how many valves were in the Subaru EVAP system! After reading a bit more, I think I was blaming the wrong valve. The vent valve on top of the fuel tank (#16) is the one responsible for letting vapors escape during refueling. Seems like that's the one to look at if the problem only occurs when I buy gas. But, lordy... Step One in the Haynes manual is "remove the fuel tank," which seems like a massive amount of work. I'm hoping Fairtax4me will weigh in here and tell me whether I'm on the right track before I start something that big. Is there a way to test the vent valve without taking out the fuel tank?

Okay, I'm still having the same problem, but I've done a little more research. One thing I should have mentioned before is that my fuel pump gave out about a year ago. It developed several hairline fractures in the upper plate where the hoses attach and started spraying a mist of gasoline everywhere when the engine was running. I just assumed that the plastic had gotten old and brittle, so I replaced it and didn't think much about it. My theory now is that the pressure control solenoid valve is broken. When pressures get high in the tank (such as after refueling) the valve should be opening to let vapors escape to the EVAP canister. If the valve isn't working, pressurized gas is getting forced into the fuel pump, which would explain both the shuddering of the car and the eventual cracking of the fuel pump nozzles. And if the valve isn't opening, nothing is going to the purge control valve, which would explain why it's dry. Does that seem reasonable? If I'm right about this, I need to deal with it right away before I destroy another fuel pump.

Okay, I tried it with the engine cool and gave it several strong blows. Couldn't get even a bit of air through the hose. Any other ideas? I appreciate all your suggestions and help with this!

For the purpose of this diagnostic, does it matter where I detach the vacuum line? I filled up the car this morning, waited until the shuddering started, and then pulled over to check. I disconnected the hose from the purge solenoid where it enters the throttle chamber (because that's the easiest connection to reach on a hot engine) and it was completely dry. No liquid that I could detect. But I see that you said to check "the line going to the purge solenoid" and I was checking the line after it left the purge solenoid. Should I try again or should I investigate something else?

I'm having a similar problem with my 2003 Subaru Legacy Outback. Whenever I fill up the tank with gas, the car starts fine and drives away from the station, but I get about 200 yards and then the engine starts coughing and shuddering. The car lurches and shakes that way for about half a mile, and then the problem seems to be solved. Everything operates normally after that. I get the same problem whether the tank is completely empty or only half empty when I fill it. The coughing is the only symptom. I'm not getting a check engine light or anything like that. From what I read in this forum, it sounds like the purge valve is the likely culprit, but AutoZone wants $130 for a replacement. Questions: Is this something I need to fix? (i.e., am I damaging the car if I decide to just live with the shuddering effect?) Could one of the lines going to the valve be the problem? Can I just take them off to check for leaks and obstructions or will gas start spilling everywhere? Can the purge valve be cleaned and restored? (And, if so, how?) Is this the sort of part that would be safe to buy from an online junkyard? Thanks for any advice!

Dave, did you ever get an answer to this one? I think I may be having the same problem. I've got a 2003 Legacy Outback with 110,000 miles. It generally runs great, but twice in the past month my wife has gone out to start the car and only heard a "click" when she turned the key. (I wasn't there, so I can't say where the sound was coming from.) Both times the problem eventually solved itself and the car started after about an hour of trying. The battery in the car is brand new and the connections to the battery cables are tight and clean. I've already had the battery and alternator tested at AutoZone and they say everything is fine. So I'm thinking it must be a switch somewhere. Is the switch on the clutch pedal the first place I should be looking? Anybody got a diagram of that? I've tried looking around under there, but it's an incredibly awkward place to reach and I'm not sure which part is the switch. I'm also not sure how to test it, even if I find it. But, if it's cheap enough, maybe I should just replace it and see if the problem goes away? Any advice is appreciated!

They aren't the usual sort of metal hose clamps. These are plastic and they are described in the Haynes manual as "two-tab type quick-connect fittings." I'm not having much luck finding the right replacement parts.

Okay, getting closer. I did what Texan recommended and watched for awhile. The gasoline is leaking from the connection to the fuel supply hose. The Haynes manual says that if the connector or O-ring is damaged I need to replace the whole fuel line. But (as far as I can tell) it doesn't explain how to replace that fuel line. Any guidance? Is the replacement self-explanatory once I start following the existing line? I have no idea what route the line takes or how much of a hassle this is going to be.

Okay, I've found the leak. It's on top of the gas tank at the fuel sending unit. When I lifted up the rear seat and took off the cover on the passenger side, I found a shallow pool of gasoline around the three hose fittings there. Below the car you can see that the gas has been flowing down the side of the tank and wetting all the bars and hoses underneath. So what now? I don't see any obvious holes or cracks in the fuel lines or the top of the sending unit. Is there a good (safe) way to narrow down the leak?

Okay, I'm still getting the gasoline smell, so I need to investigate. Can you elaborate on that? Do I remove the cover from above, using those screws around the gas cap, or do I need to get under the car and remove it from there?

I was working on my A/C system recently and I noticed this loose wire in my engine compartment. It ends in a metal loop and it's positioned near a screw hole in the engine compartment wall. (There are two views of the same spot in the image below - one with annotations and one without.) I can't imagine that normal driving would make a screw work itself all the way out. But I did have the clutch replaced a year ago and maybe the mechanic forgot to reconnect that wire when he put everything back together. But that would mean that I've been driving with the wire disconnected for the past year (without any noticeable problems). Questions: Is this a ground wire? Should I get a screw and (re-)connect the wire to that hole in the engine compartment wall? Part of me says that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But part of me says that the ground wire probably serves a safety function and I'm risking an electrical short or a fire if I leave it disconnected. What do you think?

When I inherited a 2003 Outback a few years ago, the A/C system had a leak and wasn't working. (I don't know how long it hadn't been working before that. Maybe it had been years.) Last month, with the summer heat, I finally got around to replacing the high pressure line, the receiver-dryer, the O-rings, and the valves. Then I pumped out the system and refilled it with coolant. That was more than two weeks ago. The A/C is still working great and blowing cold, but... there's a noticeable strain on the engine when the A/C is on, my gas mileage has plunged dramatically, and there's often a noticeable smell of gasoline outside the car after it's been running and even if it's been sitting for awhile. Any thoughts? Is this normal for a Subaru in hot weather? I'm wondering if I need to adjust the timing or fuel mixture for the engine now that it has the additional strain of turning the compressor. I'm also wondering if maybe the compressor is faulty in some way and isn't turning as smoothly as it should. Is there a way to test the compressor and/or check the compressor oil level? Any input welcome!

It may not be strictly necessary, but if you're going to be working on your A/C system anyway, I don't know why you wouldn't vacuum it out. You can borrow the pump and manifolds from AutoZone for free, and they'll even let you borrow a bottle of pump oil to replace whatever gets used. So your only cost is the tiny bit of electricity to run the pump, and it can end up saving you money in the long run if it finds a leak before you waste two cans of R134a refilling the system.

But that's just it - they DO know how much I'll need! The oil that is added with a new receiver drier is meant to replace the oil that went out in the old receiver drier. So anyone buying this particular new part will be replacing the same old part and will ALWAYS need to add exactly 10 mL (1/3 oz) of PAG oil. There's no guesswork about it at all. (One-third of an ounce, by the way, is exactly what you get in a Heinz ketchup packet. Imagine if the burger joint didn't include that with your order and just told you to go to the store for an 8 oz bottle of ketchup every time you bought a side of fries.) Anyway, rant over. Thanks for all the input in this topic! I think I've decided to skip the 10 mL of PAG oil for now. It's such a trivial amount that I can't imagine it makes much difference, and it wouldn't surprise me if the new receiver-drier actually had some oil already in it. I'll let you know later this summer how it all turns out.

Hmm... Thanks for the tip! The R134a / PAG oil combo looks like a good option if someone needs to add a full 2 oz of oil, but it doesn't look like the right thing for the receiver drier replacement situation. If I understand the math here correctly, 8 oz = 237 mL of refrigerant oil. I only need 10 mL, so I'm looking for a way to add 1/3 oz. The product at Amazon is a pressurized can, just like a regular can of R134a, and it has 2 oz of oil. So, if I use that, I need to either A ) use the whole can, B ) use part of a can and then store it with a tap valve attached, or C ) use part of a can and then vent the rest of it into the atmosphere so I can get my tap valve back. Option A would put way too much oil in the system. And options B & C both would require me to use a very precise scale to measure out 1/3 oz. Just doesn't look like the right way to go. The whole thing would be so much simpler if a new receiver drier came with the right amount of oil already added. Or maybe they could include a little plastic packet that you tear open to add 10 mL of oil. Auto parts company executives, are you listening??? If my salad from Trader Joe's can come with a pre-measured packet of salad oil, why can't my receiver drier come with a similar packet of PAG oil?